Arresting 10000 is likely to result in another 500 deaths from C19 & brutality.

@FrayedBear And, not to be uncaring, lets hope a good number are within the police force.

@JackPedigo I can't see the protests stopping until Trump introduces unified police law & training throughout the country.

@FrayedBear This won't happen but still there are things concerned civilians can do. This morning on NPR there was a report of a school district in Minneapolis terminating their contract with the local police in their partnership with the school. Also, the police will experience covid-19 infections and it will lower their numbers. There also has to be a real crackdown on rioting and perhaps there could even be a group within the demonstrating group to monitor and try and quell any destructive rioting. Also, I believe the police groups are all locally controlled and not under federal standards. It's up to the citizens to vote in chiefs (we have elections here) or get the mayors to select chiefs that can reduce the type of violence that we continue to see within the police themselves.

@JackPedigo Jack @William_Mary posted a good article on US Police & the lack of uniformity throughout the land.

@JackPedigo "‘Why US Police Are Out of Control’

U."

@FrayedBear Agree and disagree. The US police covers a large area. Some cities and towns have more civilized police forces. Often, things have to get really bad before changes are made and they have been made in some places. Even here on this site some smaller town cops were supporting the protesters. I know it must be hard to believe but there things our POS does not control.

@FrayedBear pleasant exchange here gentlemen, thank you.

Jack, how many African Americans were killed under the Obama administration during 8 years? Why are you missing these very important facts as you put all the blame on Trump? Bill Clinton and Biden? This isn't a party issue, it's been a historic issue created within a corrupt system. No one really cares to fix the issue because it's part of an agenda. It really isn't just a black issue, it's a class issue. A large part of the problem is also who the targeted party becomes to solve the issue by activist. They actually think the democratic party is there to help them. I assure you they are not. They have played every bit of a part in creating this issue and allowing it to go on.

Voting doesn't work. Local and state governments are as corrupt as the national government. They have their own interest list of elite to serve also. While I agree with a large part of that reply it also ignores the real issues. A better question is, why don't the police join the protest of peaceful law abiding citizens so that they can protect these people with a surrounding perimeter and tactically placed few within to also weed out the few who start the criminal acts? If there was a genuine sense to lawfully assemble they would manage these protest with the organizers. The organizers with the city. It's not by chance most of the violent acts come at nighttime. And mostly in large cities. These need to be better organized by grass root activist with the occurring cities. The only way voting is going to help is to completely vote out the current parties orchestrating the current system within a socialized structured sense that has the concerns of the working class, poor, and poverty stricken people in mind. Right now the current agenda is to control this part of society.

And you're right. Trump doesn't have control of everything. No president does. Which is why Obama also had a large death toll under his 8 years. Take a knee with Colin Kaepernick?

Voting doesn't work. In other countries we claim to interfere in the name of democracy when protest break out. In our country we stamp out democracy when protest start. How do you vote that out? This has been played out the same no matter what party held the white house. In other countries we tend to back the government opposition who are mainly made up of right wing people supporting the upper class who commit the violent killing and destruction. Venezuela is the most current example. Hong Kong, it's a cold war with China as an agenda. In our country it's always the progressive actions who are stamped out by the government often backed by their fascist element who create the worse of the violence. While they (the fascist elements) can hold their own protest unscathed while carrying weapons. Again, under the observation of both parties. See a pattern here?

@William_Mary Sadly I become increasingly despairing that unless the rules espoused by Professor Cipolla in his 5 Basic Laws of human Stupidity are instilled in all children from the age of understanding speech the human race will predominantly continue to be peopled by stupid people.

@FrayedBear those basic laws I know and have read a few times. They actually seem to fit the narrative I've tried to set for the group towards conditioning people to contemplate using the alternative news sources I use. They also highly correlate to cognitive dissonance within the 2 party establishment division when it comes to the fact that these people dismiss their own party's involvement in the same crimes and actions as that they accuse the other side of being sole supporters of.

I must incorporate them into the last pinned page I created. Thank you for bringing that up! A reply from LetzGetReal recently offered me another observance to add into that post also that many mistook as a mere rant over my original intent. Haters will sometimes just want to remain haters. Those that simply exist to provide negativity are just as hard to reach.

A large part of the problem is that when your only reliance is on a MSCM source you're easily fooled into and out of the rabbit hole. They provide just enough good information to think you know what's real, then pull you back down with dis/misinformation. I see it all the time. A mixture of both is hard for the best to filter through, which is another perception I try to provide here.

@William_Mary I now use the word "besotted" or "hypnotised" however it doesn't remove my despair.

@William_Mary Many local and state groups are taking actions and making changes. Just today the mayor of Seattle banned tear gas usage by the police.
These issues are not just in the US but global. Again, it's very easy to point fingers at certain people especially politicians. No one is ever happy and no matter what happens someone is going to be upset but it's called nature. These sort of conflicts have been happening from the beginning of time and will continue as long as we refuse to wake up and see our place on this planet. I am so sick of so many of us playing the extreme blame game and wrote something this morning. I will not get into any long winded debates especially when they are based on subjective emotions. The person you mentioned and I have gotten into some head butting and I feel she is looking to feel good ideas to all the world's problems. Unfortunately, nature is red in claw and tooth which includes all life forms.

Why are we so determined to stereotype and generalize? Through genetic research scientists have long ago determined there is no such thing as race. Humans have cosmetic and cultural differences but generally are all the same. White people, black people, yellow, red green (in case) we are all the same. However, as many other higher life forms we break ourselves into tribes and do what tribes do, act tribal. We tend to favor those that are closest to us in relationships, culture and locality. When resources become depleted we compete for what there is and try to exclude other tribal members. Sometimes that behavior takes on a culture of it’s own. It seem we are like the Catholics on the T-shirt I recently posted, Shit happens and it’s our fault. Right now in much of Europe and North America the white tribe is in the majority and majorities often look down on minorities, everywhere. Right now in Israel it happened a soldier killed an autistic, unarmed Palestinian. [abcnews.go.com] Both are white and neither is really in the majority. It’s all about competition for resources and the more people the fewer the resources and the more the competition and violence. This is and has been since the beginning a population issue. When are we going to wake up and see this planet does not have infinite resources?

@JackPedigo you can take away all the weaponry you want, as I'm seeing also towards military style. Lets open that can of worms then with all local police relieved of such. What's that leave you with when they claim a situation has become out of hand for them to control. And I guarantee you this isn't going to be the last time and that will condition the next step. It opens up the very worse of today's events that we had during the Vietnam protest. Moving the national guard into cites. I live near Kent Ohio and actually lived downtown in Kent as a kid when that went down. It's not a pretty sight to see guardsmen and bus loads of police from outside of the city marching into you downtown area in full out riot gear over a few broken windows in a small business area at night. Then shoot and kill 4 students in broad daylight the next day in a peaceful on campus protest over a misstep. All it takes is one asshat fascist trouble maker in a crown of peaceful protesters to fire a gun to eventually set off a fire fight response and end up with dozens to hundreds of dead citizens.

Why can't I point my finger at politicians? And often the very activist groups that always tend to rely on a certain side of those politicians that also have a history of participating in the same atrocities for help within a worthless collaboration only to weaken their cause. Nature? That's the proven nature of that history. Natural would be learning this lesson. Obviously you and I are of different mind sets. You don't seem to see the agenda that has been created by the ruling class to use this "nature" against people of color, lower class, people in poverty, and the working class. These people are indeed the one's that are suppose to be representing us who we depend on to be intelligent enough to separate our nature between right and wrong and apply a sense of governance over us to protect us. The fact that they fail to manage this so horrifically should be a clear indication that their agenda isn't a concerned forth coming to the citizens as a whole. This also being a naturalist of apparent historic exposure you seem to be willing to just accept as though little can be done. I can't live with that. I can't live with the fact that such lack of foresight after history tells me this keeps getting worse in time and that allowing it to continue to get worse for future generations is acceptable under the terms of conditioning that it's simply our nature.

I see you answering your own natural question frankly. You don't seem to get it though. Nature again playing a part in it, and agenda. The agenda of the ruling class using our differences against us, our differences as a people. We as a natural tribal sense question what we see different. I don't agree we are all drawn to correlating relationships. There's this thing called interracial relationships with multiple cultures all tangled up out there in the world. Locality is often a matter of choice and upbringing. You might recognize one of my correlations in that one when it comes to social class structure! Which I'm arguing feeds our problem in a large degree. You way of making that list up just might give some people the idea you're a racist? Just make sure you use it within the terms you set it up above or it can easily be taken out of context by someone just begging to be negative in attack mode.

I however have openly admitted in this group on occasion of being a racist. I'm one of the very few in society who will argue we are all to some degree racist. But as one of the few in society I relate it with our natural instincts within our diverse differences to question what we don't know and how I conduct myself as responsible person with intellect and love of the human race as a whole in coexistence. Where the vast majority of the population have allowed the propaganda of the system working against us to control how we view racism and use it against us. The very racism being talked about today, and most times, is a systemic condition that's been engulfed on the people within perception management via media propaganda for those who own them.

@William_Mary "You don't seem to see the agenda that has been created by the ruling class to use this "nature..." "Nature" is not about just humans and our petty squabbles. This issue between rich and poor is typical and has been used down the ages. When Anthropologist studied the history of Easter Island they saw the same thing at play. There were basically two tribes - the wealthy or long eared tribe and the poor or short eared tribe. [history-a2z.com] The island was a forest and the Polynesians came in their long boats and settled on the island. Unfortunately, they cut down the trees (William Costner made a strange movie about the last tree titled Rapa Noi) and then got into fighting. No more trees meant no more boats, huts, ways to heat and cook and on. I lived in Germany and saw what happened when the Soviet Union crumbled and all the economic refugees came to settle in W. Germany and the impact it had on the citizenry. When the Berlin Wall finally came down in 1991 and the E. Germans came over and found few jobs or housing then the revolts and fighting started. I have a degree in European History and live there 15 years and the house I lived in was destroyed in 1690 by tribal fighting.

Using such personal attacks as, "You don't seem to get it though." Doesn't exactly elicit a rational debate. I use a lot of personal experience, learning and knowledge and reason over emotion to see real connections. My late partner (an immigrant from Iran) once asked her 2nd graders, what is more important people or dirt? Even we atheist continue to place humans on a high pedestal and think "nature" is all about us. I do not.

Is it enough to result in change though?

@FrayedBear What is the fucking alternative?

And therein lies the American problem.
Will the last person standing please switch the lights off before shooting his stupid self.

@FrayedBear Were the protesters not "polite" enough for you.
Its a problem when people from other countries stick their nose where they have no idea what they are talking about. Its a American,,,,,,,problem when people are murdered in the street and the police and DA don't give a fuck. Its a problem when the police turn into fucking terrorists.
You don't even know what the problem is.

@PondartIncbendog you appear to be deliberately in your anger misunderstanding my stance. I totally agree with your statement "Its a problem when the police turn into fucking terrorists."

From the start I have pointed out that it is a bad state of affairs when property is prioritised over people's lives.
You are largely correct in stating that it is an American problem. Before long however China, Syria & Russia will be clamouring to send peacekeepers in to save the American people from their fascist military & police.

I wonder if they will also use phosphorous & depleted uranium shells as the USA has?

It's a wonder that it wasn't another Waco or 9/11 moment.

@FrayedBear I understand you perfectly.

@PondartIncbendog How true your remark "Its a problem when people from other countries stick their nose where they have no idea what they are talking about. " which is largely what the USA has been doing in order to financially advantage itself particularly when it has through CIA action created the original discontent.
Nothing to being bitten by the dog that you bred & trained/mistreated.

@FrayedBear Are you going to play whataboutism?

@PondartIncbendog I'm not but you are defending the indefensible. Like Trump you are besotted with your own righteousness.