And the Bible is passed off as...? And children question the Bible?

@GlyndonD I didn't say that it eliminated religion, only that it can help.

GlyndonD, the bible is fiction, more to the point, mythology, it is no more harmful than Bullfinchs mythology.

My children question the bible, including with their school teachers.

Okay, as long as giants and dragons are still real.

This is his second post today on bashing fantasy and Harry Potter.

@Sarahroo29 And this is your third comment coming to the rescue of Harry Potter.

@GlyndonD Harry doesn't need rescuing. Seems to me you need rescuing from some left over religious fears.

@GlyndonD you didn't address my argument..

Why does imagination have to involve mysticism?

@GlyndonD - It's fiction - it's not true! Really important that kids get to understand what's true and what's not - then they can assess the buybull too!

I think that can happen, but believe the flip side is more the case.

The Bible is a book.

@GlyndonD Exactly.

I am theorizing that the indoctrinators decided that Harry et al could actually be their friend and not their foe in indoctrinating kids. I could see logic in that thinking. But most people here seem to want to defend Harry and mysticism just as fervantly as believers defend their god and their religion. Interesting.

@GlyndonD If so that's a new development. I've been a Potter-head since my son was little. For some reason my boy didn't like anyone reading to him at all. He was around kindergarten age when he started becoming more interested in what such scribbles on a page meant. This ended up being the first book he ever let me read to him back around the time they were still working on the first movie. Harry will always have a place in my heart for that reason alone.

All children? They digest the Bible as stories?

Not all. If someone has an open mind, they can see a good story for a good story and move on.

@GlyndonD - When you give a child a book like Harry Potter, of course you tell them it isn't real! And then you read it together or they read it on their own, and they learn about fantasy, imagination and appreciation of fiction. The reason kids believe the buybull is because adults tell them it's real!

Just like they pick up things from the Bible?

@GlyndonD Was that intended as a snide remark? If so, the cynicism was unnecessary, but I will give the benefit of the doubt and answer your question.

Yes, like things the can be picked up in the bible. There are lessons in the bible. Some of them are actually valuable lessons and ones we see mirrored in other books or films or real life. Depending on how you view the bible, it can also be a fantastical tale...that doesn't mean kids are being indoctrinated to it or the other fiction books they are reading. It can be another world to explore, it is another opportunity to expand their imagination.

I have 14 year old twins. They both read extensively. My son likely reads over 1000 pages a week, easily. We have never restricted what they read. He loves fantasy and science fiction. He loves reading about mythical Gods and dragons and space. He has read children versions of the Christian bible starting at probably 8? And at least portions if the King James version. (We had a missionary family with kids living next door. They were always nice enough to share. ) We have always encouraged our kids to learn about different religions. He is fairly intelligent and has critical thinking skills. Despite all that he has learned and read, he is steadfast in his view of religion. He is an atheist.

His sister, whose best friend was one of the missionary children sort of bought into religion. We had a feeling that as she grew older and grew more aware of the things happening in our world that she would likely see things differently...and that's exactly what we have seen. I would not consider her a full on atheist, but certainly a skeptic and agnostic.

Indoctrination required repeated exposures, authoritarianism, and coercion. As a pejorative term, indoctrination implies forcibly or coercively causing people to act and think on the basis of a certain ideology.

So no, I don't think exposing children to fantasy movies and books conditions their minds into thinking magic, spirits and God's can exist in our world. They develop the ability to think critically and the capacity to seperate what is real and what isn't as long as those ideas are not continually pounded in their heads.

@AdorkableMe I am not censoring my kids. I just let them know my opinion of things, like magic and fantasy aren't real. I'm just maintaining that many parents are using non-biblical fantasy as a stepping stone to getting kids to believe junk. I think my ex-wife had that motive.

You're correct.

How does reading the Bible, then, teach a kid to think critically and to distinguish between reality and fantasy?

@GlyndonD You are assuming our children are stupid. They aren't.

@GlyndonD It doesn't! Because children are told the biybull is real by irresponsible indoctrinated adults. Do we get the difference now???

@marmot84 But those children end up.believing the Bible. What's that? Are you calling it stupidity? I'm calling it brainwashing, and it has a process. Maybe going along with Harry Potter-like nonsense makes us unwitting participants in that process.

@GlyndonD In my humble opinion, (which may differ from yours) most children can separate fantasy and reality rather easily. Teaching children through the reading of fantasy is not generally a problem nor part of the problem. Telling children that "the Bible" is actually true may be a problem but that is not what you stated.

Sorry, I respectfully disagree with you. You've argued via an inappropriate generalization.

But some kids never realize that the Bible is fiction.

@GlyndonD I think most kids instinctively do. It'd only once they've been conditioned not to question things that they start to really believe in it.

What are you saying they are NOT real? :0

The Bible is a book. It is not a culprit?

@GlyndonD I refer back to my reply. Where would a kid get a bible from, if not an adult?

Glydon, books are inanimate objects they Connor be culprits.

Why would I want to imagine that there are more forces than the 3fundamental forces of nature? Or that you can fly?

@GlyndonD, oh, so you never pretended to be Superman as a kid? Personally, I wanted to be Gandalf.

@TaraMarshall Yes, wanted to fly. Miss those dreams. But is the price to pay that later in life you cling to mysticism? What are the negatives of that?

@GlyndonD, but our presence here suggests we didn't cling to mysticism.

@TaraMarshall But how many kids have?

@GlyndonD, considering more Americans have no religious affiliation now, lots.

@TaraMarshall Sadly, I don't believe your statistic.

@GlyndonD, they aren't necessarily non-believers, but they have no religious affiliation and don't go to church on holidays. You're hearing the last screaming cultural gasps from the desperate religiots who want to continue their myths.
[scientificamerican.com]

@TaraMarshall You mean, it's like they're a little bit pregnant?

@GlyndonD, many of them stop believing in or caring about god (s) as they get older.

@TaraMarshall True, but it's the ones that do not that cause problems. I'd like it to be less of those kinds of people.

Maybe that's the antidote. But my main contention was those parents now using fantasy as a means to an end.

@GlyndonD I know tons of parents ( like me) who supply their kids with Pottery stuff (there were many, better written fantasies before Rowling hit the jackpot) and not one of them has an ounce of religion in their bones. Most are actually progressives.Think of the bazillions of D and D, etc. players. How many of the do you think watch the 700 Club?

@RonWilliam53 OK, I'm beginning to believe that fantasy does not pose a threat to one's reasoning skills if handled well. But, I still think there are people who are using fantasy to help their kids believe in ghosts, goblins, gods, and supernatural powers.

That, too.

Except that no adult believes in the tooth fairy and santa. At some stage, a responsible adult admitted they were fictional, just like the religiots need to do about religion, but they won't.