Agnostic.com
  1. Agnostic
  2. Posts
  3. Religion & Spirituality

24 6

A new moral guide?

The bible is out of date along with the Koran. Is there anyone that can write a new book of morals? It would need to be short and concise, but contain a list of good morals.
It might just say "Do unto others". That seems to include just about everything, it seems to me.
Christopher Hitchens wrote his own version of a 10 commandments, which is quite good I think.

#ChristopherHitchens #politics #religion #morals #moral #Bible #Koran #book
Grecio 7 July 17
Share
Submit

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

24 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

9

Level 5

Interestingly is the Satanists that have it figured out 😂👍

Dude, most living humans do not have the ability to comprehend what you wrote.

Well said. That all makes sense to me but I think we need more detail. thanks..
8

Level 8

I have a big like of these:

Penn Jillette's "10 Commandments for Atheism,"

  1. The highest ideals are human intelligence, creativity and love. Respect these above all.
  2. Do not put things or even ideas above other human beings. (Let's scream at each other about Kindle versus iPad, solar versus nuclear, Republican versus Libertarian, Garth Brooks versus Sun Ra— but when your house is on fire, I'll be there to help.)
  3. Say what you mean, even when talking to yourself. (What used to be an oath to god is now quite simply respecting yourself.)
  4. Put aside some time to rest and think. (If you're religious, that might be the Sabbath; if you're a Vegas magician, that'll be the day with the lowest grosses.)
  5. Be there for your family. Love your parents, your partner, and your children. (Love is deeper than honor, and parents matter, but so do spouse and children.)
  6. Respect and protect all human life. (Many believe that "Thou shalt not kill" only refers to people in the same tribe. I say it's all human life.)
  7. Keep your promises. (If you can't be sexually exclusive to your spouse, don't make that deal.)
  8. Don't steal. (This includes magic tricks and jokes — you know who you are!)
  9. Don't lie. (You know, unless you're doing magic tricks and it's part of your job. Does that make it OK for politicians, too?)
  10. Don't waste too much time wishing, hoping, and being envious; it'll make you bugnutty.

Well said, I like his thinking

Well said. Let's publish it in the WSJ.

That is certainly an improvement over the Biblical 10 commandments.
6

Level 8

Don't be a dick.

Succinctly put!!

Or a cunt! ha ha ha

@Archeus_Lore I prefer Bitch to the C word, but err yep!

@praytothemilkjug Use of cunt, in America, is an example of being a dick. Of course the commenter will wish to claim that use of cunt is no different than use of dick, but we all know better.

@itsmedammit I am aware, but if I used that word my mom would wack me good, SWMBO would not like it either.

have a chuckle

Now a Polish guy I knew for a long time said he and the wife were new to America, they were in a store and he picked up a nice pair of well made pants, (trousers). The wife was 10 feet away and as he held up the pants to show her he said, in English, LOUDLY,

"Honey look at the Cunts on these pants" .

He said all the women in the area were very upset, explanations needed. The word Cunt (kant) in polish means Crease, as in the well ironed pantaloons, but hearing what they said in English made them turn beet red.

I know many people today use the word, in deference to my wife and all the females I know, I call a spade a spade and a dick a dick, or Schmuck or Putz.

Oy vey

@praytothemilkjug Lol.

Also I see you are a wise man.

itsmedammit What a person judges to be more negative, with regards to the word "cunt" or the word "dick" is highly relative to the person who is making the judgement, and often very relevant to whether they are a man or a woman, so it is just as easy to say that the use of the word "dick" in America, is an example of being a cunt. Both are used in a negative manner, and the person who hears it is more likely to be the judge of which is worse, or if in fact, they are both equally negative. But given that an ad hominem has raised its ugly head, it says quite a bit about the individual who employed it.

@itsmedammit I will take a compliment as it comes, but my family might disagree! We had many a good discussion while installing light fixtures and running emt, BX Cable and wire.

Kinda like Fox Hole Philosophy. You are in a precarious situation, and in the down time you ponder things. You can really thrash stuff out. You get many opinions, and perspectives. Those infatuated with only "GOD" can only discuss 1 thing, or have only 1 perspective. Incredibly boring people, to me kinda like sports fanatics. They literally can not speak about anything else. At least I can verbally go after the stupidity in religious nutters when they bring it up, or crappy politicians. We had one kid who was from a "economically challenged" environment, (how's that for PC for Poor and Uneducated as one can be). Hard worker and not stupid he really could and was to be competent electrician. He said he neede to get a kid. BTH meant get a "girl" pregnant. He was adamant, and it took several days to get across to him exactly what he would give to himself and his mate and the kid...... a little bit of misery. I pointed out many of the things that make you a parent as opposed to a sperm donor. He eventually married the girl (a wonderful person), and they had 3 kids.

so wise? your lips to gods ears, even if they are clip on bunny ears!

@praytothemilkjug I just meant you are wise to take care to not offend people in your life.

@Archeus_Lore Whatever. I stand by my assessment.

@itsmedammit Cool Breeze, well a man can wish!

itsmedammit "I just meant you are wise to take care to not offend people in your life."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha . . . . how hypocritical of you . . .

itsmedammit Stand by your stupidity then. I do not tolerate ad hominems on any forum I am present on. Life is to short to tolerate bull shit from people who have no manners . . .

6

Level 8

MY 10 Commandments:

  1. Commit no violence against another, physical or otherwise (except in self defense)
  2. TRY to be a good, honorable person.
  3. Respect the opinions of others (unless that opinion is of an immediately dangerous nature).
  4. Help others who are (in your honest opinion) in genuine need.
  5. Strive to place your own personal needs in a larger social context.
  6. Think often and deeply of the well being of the planet (and it's other inhabitants) on which you reside.
  7. Think (realistically) of your place in the universe (if you believe in such things. If not, respect those who do).
  8. Speak honestly to yourself. Expect from yourself allegiance to your own conscience.
  9. Set aside one day a week for rest and relaxation.
  10. Give yourself permission to make mistakes, learn from them, and make that a continual process.

What does it mean to "respect the opinions of others"?

Does it mean that one should respect their right to hold that opinion? Does it mean that one should entertain the thought that they might be right? Are we talking about pure opinions here ("cheese is yummy" ), or are we also talking about assertions of fact that masquerade as opinions ("it's my opinion that the Earth is 7000 years old" )?

Well said.

Well said.

@AmyTheBruce It means what you want it to mean I guess
If you have extremely rigid opinions about things it could pose a problem!
As an agnostic with few if any 'beliefs,' who sees all opinions as essentially equal, I've no problem with it.
Hey I'm not Moses. I just thought I'd give it a shot.

Is your outline from Islam?

@AmyTheBruce Well said.

@Grecio No! I hate Islam and all religions. What gave you THAT idea?!?

well said.

@Storm1752 sorry, I was being facetious.
5

Level 3

Aleister Crowley wrote something into his Book of the Law that should probably be included in every "holy text": a prohibition on the reader interpreting what they read for anybody else. You read it if you want and nobody gets to tell you what to think about it.

he was an odd duck but I do agree with him on that point!

Does the book say what it means or does each reader have the right to interpreting himself/herself?

@Grecio It's a pretty arcane read. The reader would have to figure out what, in anything, it means to them.

@Donna_I Yeah he was a fascinating figure and I mean that in neither a positive nor a negative light. Many who knew him have a list of pros and cons about him. Some have speculated that half the rumors about him were probably started by him. If you haven't heard it before I recommend looking up the incident that got him the headline "The Wickedest Man In The World" because because of a rumor he started for his own safety.

@Tanstaafl I will hope the claims of cannibalism, coprophagy, rape, etc. were for shock value. I watched a bit of a biography about him and it was interesting to see how people reacted so differently to him.🙂

@Tanstaafl Many Christians have this topic written into their bylaws. Can an individual interpret the scripture for his/her self?
5

Level 7

I prefer Carlin's Commandments

redhog Level 7 July 17, 2020
Reply

that was a great speach!

for those that haven't seen it. 🙂
4

Level 7
Grecio Level 7 July 17, 2020
Reply

. . . on the one hand "Do not covet" is thought crime
. . . on the other hand "Do not even think of using people" is . . . ?

@FearlessFly The 5 Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz
The First Agreement – BE IMPECCABLE WITH YOUR WORD. Speak with integrity and say only what you mean. ...
The Second Agreement – DON'T TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY. ...
The Third Agreement – DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS. ...
The Fourth Agreement – ALWAYS DO YOUR BEST. ...
The Fifth Agreement – BE SKEPTICAL, BUT LEARN TO LISTEN.
3

Level 8

Seems to me it is laid out in our written laws which change over time and social adaptation . Why do you feel the need of a second, possibly contradictory document?

What written laws? Do you mean the laws of this country? (USA) The laws are fine but the enforcement of the laws, along with the judicial system needs reform badly.

I guess the truth and justice change over time. however, can we have an agreement and maybe a document that might last for at least 30 years? There are many grey areas, like can a family shoot and kill a person that is breaking into their home? I dunno?

@Grecio no argument there regarding enforcement, always room for improvement.

Laws changing and adapting is key, ex civil rights, gay rights etc. the laws should not change frequently, but over time with social pressure.

I’m just against yet another source of rules (Bible, Koran etc).

@Canndue Well said.
3

Level 9

And why do need a book of morals? Whose business is it unless someone is getting hurt?

That's the whole idea. People are getting hurt.

Duh, hence a book of moral rules.

@Grecio ummmm, people are getting hurt because they ignore any & all rules/laws/The Golden Rule.
3

Level 4

I think the whole point is that we don’t need a written code to know right from wrong. Other animals have figured it out. I think we can, too.

Also, I don’t think people act badly because they don’t know any better. It’s because they don’t care.

I thin we need a code, perhaps for the whole world, or at least our nation.

@Reason-Able I would say that criminals have a brain that operates differently from a brain that behaves as it should. Perhaps this is due to hormone imbalance or damage to their brain at both. Some studies have proposed that most criminals have a had a brain injury.

@Grecio Well, I have to admit, from personal experience, that I have made the conscious decision to do something I knew was ethically wrong. I think the reason people do it because people are selfish. I’m not denying that mentally imbalanced criminals exist. I am referring to the average person. For either, however, I don’t see the value in a written code.

Actually my impression is that we can't. At least as long as 3 billion people believe in the laws written in mythical scriptures.

@Reason-Able But what causes a selfish brain? Are we born selfish, or do we acquire it growing up? Does our environment cause some people to have a selfish brain? Sigmon Freud said the potty training has a great effect on a child's personality.
I guess we don't know why some people are willing to break a law. Apparently, some people's brains are more likely to take risks, which often do not pay off for them.
If there is no "soul" then all we have is our brains. Our brains are biological and chemical entities. We have no control over our brains. We think we do, but we don't.

@Grecio I believe it is evolutionary. Those who act in their own self interest are more likely to survive.
2

Level 8

Simply look at the 7 tenets of the Satanic Temple

[thesatanictemple.com]

JimG Level 8 July 19, 2020
Reply

I looked at the URL. I was surprised that the Satanic temple would have such amicable, and kind tenets. It's kinda confusing for me.

@Grecio The Satanic Temple doesn't actually worship the devil. They are an atheist/ humanist group that is registered as a religion to support the separation of church and state. They selected Satan as their "deity" to make the point that many people are as offended by public religious of their christians' faith as christians are by public displays of Satanism,

2

Level 4

I avoind the word "morals" because of its religious connotations. I prefer ethics. Unlike "morals," they are not presented as being universal. I think its more useful for each person to describe their own ethical framework and for each of us to look to see where ours can be improved. Matt Dilahunty has proposed well-being as a rational basis for a set of ethics. My own is a commitment to kindness, generosity, empathy. I tend to avoid discussions of improbable "what if" scenarios. I think it's best to decie what to do in the moment.

Well said. Is it ever ethical to go to war with another country?
2

Level 9

The new Bible

Chapter one, verse one: Thou shalt not be an asshole

The End

Well said.

Well said, but there is a lot that goes into being an asshole. trust me, I would know.
2

Level 6

The concept of Morality is just man-made.

So let’s make it good.

Well said, but that implies that everyone has their own morality, but we have to live together
2

Level 9

Well lets use it then.

Use what?

@Grecio Christopoher Hitchins book.

@Jolanta That suits me.
2

Level 7

Morality, respect for other non-threatening life and love are instinctual and self-regulating. All of our close species cousins demonstrate it on their levels. We, being more advanced in many ways, are equipped with these senses in greater portion and sophistication than they are.

Fortunately for them, unless being domesticated, they aren't damaged by a process of artificial, contrived socialization formed of irrational and unnatural rules of conduct and thought. The Bible was not only out of date as each portion of it was scribed, it's entire content is pathogenic and, incidentally 9/10's directed at men. Women were for the most part only ancillary to male 'headship' and ownership of wives and progeny.

Nature's 'ten commandments' are inscribed on the unadulterated human heart and need no external rules imposed to interfere with their natural functions. Love and Life manifest inseparably. It is the first order of business for human (male) contrived societies to separate and place conditions on the expression of both.

OK, what you wrote is way, way over my head. What are nature's 10 commandments?

I am sorry but I have no idea what you mean.

@Grecio Meant only as a comparable, Nature's 'commandments' or canon, is likely beyond our comprehension in it's completeness in our own kind, let alone the planet and beyond; micro AND macrocosmically.

@Grecio Perhaps you will at some point along the way to discovery.

I have often thought that there is so much turmoil in religion because it is so unnatural. Much of it goes against human nature.

@Silver1wun Again, please write in English.

@Silver1wikll say again, you are way, way over my head. I am sorry, but I think most people on Earth have no I death what you men.com/;

@Ode_1 To forceably drive people against their own natural drives is to make them sick. To feed their stomachs and minds with artifice, before minds even have the chance to develop, is to betray their perceptual faculties to states of fear and confusion.

I don't see 'much' of religion as anti-Nature. All of it is fouled and parasitic. 'Good deeds' are always the wrapping for selfish motives; from acquiring wealth and power over others to storing 'treasures in Heaven'.

@Silver1wun Well said. I had a friend that said "Everything that people do is for one of three reasons. They are sex, money, and power. I think there are others, like happiness.
2

Level 6

What you're referring to is called law, unfortunately many people don't take it seriously. Laws codify acceptable behavior.

@OldMetalHead Laws are subject to jurisdiction, live or exist wherever you can accept the law. In other words, if you don't like the law, get it changed or get out.

The law is fine, but the judicial system is terrible.

@OldMetalHead We will never stop congressmen, women from cheating. Once elected, morals go out the door. Vote for term limits.

@OldMetalHead Why would God care what we do when we are naked? Sam Harris

@OldMetalHead It might surprise you to know that there are other countries besides the U.S.A.. I don't recall where I read this, but the rest of the world generally perceives it the same way the rest of the country perceives the state of Florida.

@ShawnHicks I have no idea what you mean.

@Grecio I wasn't replying to you.
1

Level 6

To write a book of morals requires one to determine one's ethical principles first. Are moral values determined deontologically or teleologically? What ethical values are to be regarded as a priori values to shape moral rules or guidelines? It's a highly complex task.

1

Level 8

Unfortunately everyone needs to experiment to test the longevity of any moral statement. It is very difficult to apply a statement to cover all moral questions about any topic. What is needed is a set of processes to test the statement and TIME. I call that set of processes SCIENCE and that is what has been happening with the assistance of LAWYERS and LAW MAKERS. Still the moral laws will bend and twist with time but the only way to tell if one is going in the right direction is if they pass through many Tests in lots of different situations. Bibles will NOT help this process which is based on this earth and with Humans. BOTH BOOKS WERE OUT OF DATE IN A GENERATION.

I wonder if there will ever be another holy Book written? Most people in the world have awakened enough mentally so that a book of fables and made-up religious crap will not be taken seriously.
1

Level 7

Is that what it is?

twill Level 7 July 18, 2020
Reply
1

Level 4

Okay. Here it is...

Follow only... What is good for human life and respect human relations
(what makes them feel happy and content)

Follow only... What is good for the earth and respect all that exist on it.
(naturally, what keeps it beautiful and healthy)

Anyone who breaks these morals should be banished from the earth
(so they can stop corrupting the earth and its people)

Is it good for us all to feel happy and content all the time? I wonder if there has to be hills and valleys.

@Grecio Only in the world of capitalism are their ups and downs. In the natural world life just is and we accept it as part of life. Capitalism is a game we are forced to play

@Conversational What do you suggest we replace capitalism with?

@Grecio Humanism

@Conversational Please tell me about humanism. I understand little.

@Conversational OK but am I missing the point where many animals prey on other animals, like the lion and the jacket? Isn't it dog-eat-dog in the animal world?

@Grecio Go to the "Learn" button above and go to Humanism link

@Grecio Sure there is a natural order within the animal kingdom, and yes, we are animals, but... we also have a brain to decipher what is good for the human race and what is not. Include in this the responsibility of humans to take care of their life source, the earth and what it provides them. Capitalism (a game of winning and losing) has monopolized our natural human union with our planet, it has become our broker to what is naturally ours.

@Conversational I think the humanism platform is a good place to promote the following.
let's celebrate "Start Over day. This would be a day when we celebrate forgive and forget, and start over. South Africa already celebrates this day.
On this day we would celebrate starting over with racial issues, as well as neighbors and coworkers.
If someone has had bad words with a neighbor, coworker, or racial problems then this would be a day to talk about and start over.
In 2014 I built a FB page devoted to this idea. It is not my idea. I read about it somewhere.
It will take an organized group effort by some group of people to promote the day of celebration.
Initially, the day might only be a token, and the celebration may be small. However, eventually some good might come out of it.
What have we got to lose?
1

Level 9

Why do I need a moral code and why do I think the bible provides one? Whatsoever thou wilst is the law.

I am sorry but I don't understand your comment.

@Gwendolyn2018 I am sorry but Crowley is way, way over my head. Good luck with his theories.
1

Level 6

Moral codes are for maintaining a society as my morals mightn't be as your so things don't go so well often, but a simple rule the only one you need is, "Do Unto Other As you Would Have Done Unto You" .

It really replaces all the commandments as normal people to want to be lied to, cheated, stolen from cuckolded, or murdered.

For me at least this says it all. If this takes away 99% of all the bad that happens, then we are batting a 1,000!

( I use the metaphor, but I do not understand baseball, more importantly it, it is boring. The best part of the pandemic is less planes over my head and little to no sports clogging the TV, leaving room for infinite reruns of Gilligan's Island! )

1

Level 8

Face palm. Writing a book of morals is not so what is needed. I really would like to go into explaining morals and things that establish them.

Yes, biblical text I something that can very well be considered antiquated for its specific law structure and some specific laws. The nation of Israel, to my knowledge, does not specifically fallow the laws of Moses and the 10 commandments to govern the nation any more.

Moral most commonly means something: concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness(evil) of human character.

Let's break it down: there is right and wrong OR there is good and evil.

For modern times Laws and rules is the easiest way to determine if a person is doing right or wrong in accordance with those rules or laws.

For good and evil we would have to look at dictionaries and thesauruses to find how good and evil are defined and what is synonym with good and evil. Then we would look at a person's behavior and see how it correlates with the rights and wrongs and how or where it matches with things good or evil.

So to be morally right and good it is simply to follow all rules and laws imposed upon a person and for a person to only do those things defined or synonymous with what good is.

Word Level 8 July 18, 2020
Reply

We don't always realize what is good and what is bad (or evil)

@Grecio oxymorons of good evil or evil good can complicate things, but otherwise begin with study several different dictionaries AND thesauruses to get a better understanding.

@Word Understanding of what?

@Grecio you previously said, "We don't always realize what is good and what is bad (or evil)"

@Word Well said. My bad.
Write Comment

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

Share this post

Copy Link

Categories

You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:516314
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.