That remains to be seen.

If even the wise oracle doesn't have that information, I surely don't.

@RoboGraham Ah-hh, you acknowledge your lack. That is good; unless a refusai to learn (from the oracle, of course) afflicts you.

It further remains to be seen whether activism accompanies your loquacity or that of the commenters here.

Some people see the value in engaging with people who have differing view points.

It is pragmatic to have discourse with people who have varying ideologies in order to get a well rounded view of the issues.

@RoboGraham Oh-hh? Ideologies seem highly resistant to variation. Surprise me.

Good to have you in the group.

Yeah I'm hoping some will engage. They are welcome. But I doubt any will. They will remain in their settling for Biden group.

@RoboGraham I have no beef with people who settle for Biden, as long as they are willing to be honest and admit that the only reason to vote for him is that he is somewhat better than Trump. What I can't abide is them saying that he is a good candidate or even one of the better ones of the 24 who started out in the primary race. The fact that after a two year primary race the nominee turns out to be one of the worst ones in the field tells me that the Dem party is corrupt beyond repair, the Dem primary voters (at least in SC and the Super Tuesday states) are dumber than a box of rocks, or both....

@TomMcGiverin

I have only come across a few people who believe that Joe was one of the better candidates. And I've never heard anyone say that he was their first choice. Which is why it's baffling that he won, unless you are in the know about the corruption of the party, then it makes perfect sense.

I feel the same. Anybody willing to vote for Joe for the sake of harm reduction or because of the idea that we can get more out of Biden than we ever have a chance at with Trump, is fine by me. But for those who truly believe her is a good guy who will lead well, they are naive behind belief.

@RoboGraham They are either naive or willfully ignorant.

@TomMcGiverin Whether naive or willfully ignorant, they prefer fun. Educating or activating them require effort but the perks of success may motivate some of us.

Right, the Trump pinata group has served it's purpose and will likely no longer be relevant because there is a good chance he will lose.

So now we need a similar group for the man most likely to replace him. I think it's important to criticize the most powerful person, no matter who it is.

I see loads wrong with Pelosi and the entire party. There is much to be said on that subject but a group already exist for that. It's the anti-democratic party liberals group.

I don't think any of us are holier than any one. We are a bunch of atheists. Not sure where you get the idea that I'll be glorifying Biden, the point of the group is the exact opposite.

I spoke well of Bernie because he deserved it and earned it with his efforts to move the country left and his advocacy for positive policies to help the working class. What does that have to do with the Biden group? Oh right, you look for any reason possible to speak bad about Bernie and bring up my support of him. Well have at it. Let's hear more of your "truth"

@RoboGraham
With so.much anger, frustration against Trump Democratic chances should not be 'good', those should be high or hands-down victory. Buden is old, frail and uninspiring. I am not really sure if he will beat Trump. Just wait until the first debate, if Biden does not implode before. Biden at this stage and in this condition is a joke on American people.

Bernie deserved to win? Lol... Bernie had nothing in him that would help him deserve:

1. Bernie was old
2. Bernie just had a heart attack
3. Bernie had demographics that will not be elected president in America for another 30 years (atheist, jewish, Muslim, white supremacist, Mormon, Nazi)
4. Bernie had a hunch back and a personality unfit to be president. American presidency is a personality contest, is not about electing a good guy
5. Bernie was selling a pipe dream that would never sell in America
6. Bernie was a self declared communist in Vermont and socialist later to change his tune.

And he deserved it? I tried to wake you up from your trans but you did not listen.

@St-Sinner

I said he deserved to be spoken well of. Whether he deserved to win is another matter.

Your Bernie hatred is well documented and he is no longer relevant so no need to continue with it. Unless you just enjoy the negative energy. We all need to enjoy ourselves.

@RoboGraham

”he deserved to be spoken well of".... ???

A bad candidate selling you a pipe dream, knowing well he would not get nominated, let alone get elected to the highest office, asking for mostly common man's money for 7 years, hiding his communist past, putting a twists on his blunders and dark past.... is deserving?

Why are your standards so low?

@St-Sinner

You have to have low standards when all options are terrible. Bernie was the best of the bunch. The only one arguing in favor of my ideology so there weren't any other other options.

You focus on the bad and totally ignore the good, which outweighed the bad.

@St-Sinner Sleepy Joe is extremely inspiring to me. Right man at the right time.
Between the two of them, it's really no contest. Trump is an increasingly beaten down old man, a total fraud, with few if any redeeming characteristics. He's not a genius, he paid a classmate to take his SATs. He said his father only gave him $1 million to get started, but it was over $140 million. Bankrupted many times, treats his employees like dirt, lies constantly, a total wimp when it comes to Russia, totally mishandled the virus...a liar, a cheat, a fraud, and those are accurate statements and there's so much more...how anyone could compare him to Joe Biden is beyond me

@RoboGraham
Whatever good you thought Bernie had was not a winner in American presidential elections. Wasting millions of people money, energy and fooling them is a fraud. If you thought focusing on the little good Bernie had in spite of his huge glaring shortcomings was a good strategy... you really need to check your yardstick for being good. We are not electing a teacher or a priest.

@Storm1752
A choir will always sing to the tune. Not surprising. Trump supporters will support Trump and Democratic supporters will support Biden, Bernie or any weak candidate. That is the nature of two extremes. The elections are decided by the 15% in the middle of moderates and independents.

@St-Sinner

The money donated funded his advertisements and propagated his progressive message. Which is a very good thing. He brought socialist policies into the mainstream. And most importantly, he pioneered the strategy of rejecting the bribes of the wealthy and funding exclusively through small dollar donations, which is the future and our best chance at breaking the stranglehold on power that the plutocrats have.

Despite all of your bashing, he was the least corrupt and had the best intentions. That goes a long way.

@RoboGraham
I am asking you how have you have held Democratic leaders responsible as much as you have devoted time and energies to bashing Trump and others?

I have heard about your glorification of own leaders before. It failed although I was telling you it was wrong.

@St-Sinner

There's nothing wrong with supporting the best candidate, even if that candidate fails. Especially if that candidate fails because the party is crooked and totally resistant to positive change.

I get a lot of shit on here for concentrating too much on criticizing democrats rather than focusing on trump and the right wing. It's most of what I do when talking politics these days. There are quite a few simple minded members who will tell you that I'm a troll because I bring up the truth about Biden, Pelosi, and the rest of the establishment. I've made this group for the express purpose of holding Biden accountable.

Is that good enough for you?

@RoboGraham

You criticized Biden, Warren, and every other Democratic candidates when you are all going ga... ga about Bernie. Now that Bernie has evaporated, who is your next hero in a shining armor with no faults at all?

I will see what you say and how objective you will see and say about things. How about every time you post and praise Biden about 3 things, mention 3 good things Trump has done? Is that fair? That would objective enough for me. If it is a fair assessment, I will accept the argument and support you.

@St-Sinner

There are no heroes. That is the lesson of the 2020 primary. I'm not even a party member anymore.

I don't post praise related to Biden and I don't plan too. He is my political enemy and I surely won't be doing anything to help him. Same goes for Trump. Have you ever seen any praise of Biden coming from me?

@RoboGraham
I extrapolated you shifting blind love from one bad candidate to another. I am sorry.

But I will look forward to objectivity in your posts. If you support a Democratic candidate, please tell why and equally what Trump has done good and why. One for one if you don't intend to make the group as another Trump Pinata group.

@St-Sinner

Did you not understand the purpose of Biden Pinata? Why would you assume I support Biden right after I create an anti-Biden group?

I try to be as objective as possible. I doubt I'll be supporting any other democratic politicians. I have given up on that party.

The group will be whatever people decide to make it. Everyone is free to post whatever they wish.

@RoboGraham
I understand and that is why I am not a member now. I was saying that please avoid making your group about just bashing someone. If you are the moderator, you will be your responsibility to make sure it serves it purpose and is not hijacked by extremists. Else don't start something and not own it.

@St-Sinner

I hear ya.

There will be plenty of bashing but I intend for it to be positive.

You're always welcome to join if you wish.

@VeronikaAnnJ

He is all about the argument

@VeronikaAnnJ
Ha.. ha.. I won't argue on that truth, not would I lose an argument on it.

@VeronikaAnnJ, @RoboGraham

Yes, argument but on right and fair grounds. If others think I am not correct, he or she should convince me why. If I am wrong, I am will admit my mistake and I have. But I will not accept weak and unconvincing arguments.

@St-Sinner

I like that attitude

@VeronikaAnnJ
Some people don't like bitter truths about them. I do not sugar coat anything. I tell it as it is. What is the truth is often taken as an insult because they cannot handle the truth. You have to wait and see life some more before giving advice. From your recent work experience post, I saw you were quick to judge but never said once in your post that you should not have worn leggings while working in human resources. Instead you, you began to criticize men, people and all else. I bet you still have not understood that it was an error. Secondly nobody wears baggy pants to prove, insecurity is one of the reasons that could cause it. But I don't think it has sunk into you.

@VeronikaAnnJ
When I said I met, I meant I met personally. Yes, they were elegant, respectable, respectful. I did not mean I met women through posts like yours.In fact,

It does not matter how it works with you or it works with me. What matters it the truth. The men in your office are not here to defend. You should know and any other wise woman would tell you not wear leggings at work and expect men to not look at you. The world is not where we want it to be but it has come a long way in the last few decades. knowing how the world is, how we should conduct to not put self in a condition that would create such possibilities is not something you seem to know. I mentioned you making errors or wearing leggings in human resources at work and wore baggy pants to prove yourself but you did not make a note and discuss it. But instead again began defending yourself. We all have only so much time to grow up.

@VeronikaAnnJ
Taking yourself seriously and making changes is what you need, not taking me seriously.

If you don't want people to poke holes in your stories, don't post silly posts coming and blaming men. That can save you some trouble..

@St-Sinner Don't feel bad dude, she said disgusting things about me too, and publicly no less. Best to just ignore folks like that, they aren't worth your time.

@VeronikaAnnJ Whatever fellow group members said to you is on them, what does that have to do with me, what did I directly do bad to you? We are all supposed to be adults here, if someone mistreated you then set the record straight with them. Guess some people think I'm just joking when I say that I don't want any part in the drama on this site. Just as sure as you don't think you're a liar, I'm no hypocrite either. Again, up until your Senate group comment I never had a cross word to say about you.

@VeronikaAnnJ I agreed with the point(s) they made in their posts/comments, that's different than actually sticking up for their behaviors, which I did not do. Jacar made a valid point on getting banned from certain groups, that has happened to me, I do not agree with how he handles interactions with members that disagree with him though. I cannot remember the content of Veteran's comment save for that I did agree with one point he had made. Again, I never stood up for him on how he treated other members on here, and to be honest CB said some pretty harassing things to him. I've not the slightest clue when I agreed with CaptainFeelgood over you, don't remember that one.

There's a big difference between agreeing with someone on a point they made and actually standing up or approving of how they treated others, don't confuse the two. Please give a screenshot of me telling another to take their meds, I don't recall doing that and if I did (not denying anything, I can't remember though) whoever I was chatting with must have gotten personal with me for me to say something like that. Again, if you're upset over that and consider less of me now I'm fine with that, but that still doesn't remove the fact of what you did recently with CB in the Senate group in regards to some of my comments she replied on. To criticize one for ill behavior or sticking up for such and turn around and pretty much do the same thing yourself is blatant hypocrisy in my book and makes you no better than the ones you criticize. See, I have no problem with you being upset with me, I take issue with the hypocrisy part. As for the post you did on that with the taking your meds comment, I didn't see that one, but then again I haven't been on here much recently.

@VeronikaAnnJ Fair enough, but being disappointed is a two-way street there, so I'd say we're even then. Personally, I don't think human beings are inherently good, neither are they bad. Most people are average, some days they might be at their best, while other days at their worst. All human beings make mistakes, and may decide to think or act a certain way at one given time and think about it later and realize they made a poor choice. I don't usually hold grudges, if I'm in conversation with someone and they start resorting to insults or drama, I just either ignore or block them. Afterall, this is an online forum where most of us on here will never get to meet each other in person, so why let someone upset you right? If someone was treating you poorly, just leave them be then, alone babbling to themselves. They'll take the hint eventually and move on.

Why is there a Trump Pinata group with over a thousand members including yourself?

@RoboGraham That group should have been enough but just has its own choir and not converted any one nor made any difference.

@RoboGraham I belong to the Trump Pinata group? I had no idea...

@Storm1752

Your face is one of the first to pop up when I looked at that group.

@RoboGraham, @St-Sinner It's not interesting unless there is disagreement...have you not noticed? It's part of human nature. That why sports of all description are so popular. Unless there's winners and losers, it doesn't count.

@RoboGraham Oh...
Well I'm not his BIGGEST fan, it's true, but I wouldn't want him tar and feathered, necessarily, either.
I wouldn't want to see AN UNRULY MOB DRAGGING HIM KICKING AND SCREAMING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE AND LYNCHING HIM FROM THE HIGHEST TREE, to be sure.

@Storm1752

I agree. Which is why the group is totally open to anyone with any opinion. The last thing I want is an echo chamber.

@RoboGraham
Why? Because we have a lot whiners and venters without contributing anything useful....

Just like 'some' women telling their failed dating stories of men have been bad to seek our sympathies and not knowing why some men do that. We don't know the other side nor do we hear the men to defend themselves. I have hardly seen men doing it.

@St-Sinner

I happen to believe that everyone should get to have a say. If what they say is stupid, they can easily be ignored.

Not sure of how women telling dating stories is relevant to this. If you don't like those kinds of posts, you can choose to ignore them.

@Fred_Snerd Maybe. Let me think about that.

@Fred_Snerd, @RoboGraham Oh no, I love hearing women complain about men. It gives me the opening I need to complain about THEM.

@Storm1752

You don't need a reason. You can complain all you want whenever you want.

Whether or not anyone will listen, well, that depends on the merits of your complaints.

@RoboGraham Yes but complaining to YOU means nothing. Complain to the chef in a restaurant about a disappointing meal, that's one thing; complain to the valet in the parking lot, completely different story.
(Not to insult you or valets, don't get me wrong.)

@Storm1752

Okay, complain to them then. I don't have much interest in your complaints anyway.

@RoboGraham Awww....

I'm hoping he will win, if it has to be him or Trump, because I believe we will have more success passing positive reforms under his administration than the Trump.

Still, his record shows that he is dangerous and we must be very aware of that.

The response to Biden from Democrats has been cold, lukewarm at best. We have seen it for 2 years. He lost all races until he got a boost in South Carolina from his establishment party for wanting to keep status-quo.

No shit. His record is terrible and if the Dem party wasn't so corrupt, he would have been done for good with running for prez after he had to drop out in 1988 over his plagarism scandal.

You are misreading the nature of the new group: It is to hold Biden accountable if he becomes the next president. As a Senator He routinely and loudly threatened cute to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. There is no reason to believe he will attempt to do that as president. We must be aware of his history as a legislator so we can be prepared to fight for our benefits and rights if he’s elected.

@Bobbyzen You are misreading my statement. I was talking about Trump threatening SS. You're also misrepresenting Joe Biden's record. My question was directed to @RoboGraham

@barjoe I read what Trump threatened. Have you never heard Biden threaten it? My comments are based in fact and history. Here’s one article about his history of advocating for Social Security cuts. The point is to not breathe a sigh of relief if he’s elected, but to advocate for our rights as hard as ever. [google.com]

@Bobbyzen A freeze is not a cut. The hard left is a tiny minority in this country. The hard right unfortunately is a strong political force that's currently in power. Joe Biden is a moderate. That's the majority of people in this country.

@barjoe defend him all you want. Fact is, if he had his way 40 years ago your Social Security would be a third of what it is today, if it wasn’t disappeared all together.

@Bobbyzen That's just not true but if you keep saying it you might believe it.

I'm hoping he will win too.

Biden has done much harm.

He intensified the war on drugs. He exploded the prison population with his war on poor people known as the crime bill. He made it so that I will never have a chance to file for bankruptcy due to student loans if it ever gets that bad, which it might honestly. He has been a very important voice in keeping cannabis illegal which I find particularly backward and extremely insulting to my way of life. He played a very large part in getting us into Iraq which had disastrous effects on people I know personally. He has always sided with predatory lenders over borrowers and is antagonistic toward consumer protection. And the cherry on top, he has vowed to veto med4all which is the single most important piece of legislation of my generation.

So yeah, in my opinion, fuck Joe Biden

@barjoe I beg to differ. The protest marches all over the country this summer suggest to me that the lefties may be more sizeable than you think. Remember also that only about half of the eligible voters in the country vote in most prez elections and the most likely reason appears to be that they see little difference between the parties these days in prez elections. Since both parties have been nominating neoliberal corporate candidates for the last four decades that have been center right to far right, while Bernie Sanders has brought out way bigger crowds and excitement than any other candidate the last two cycles, that tells me that most of the non-voters are probably people who lean to the left. But as long as the Dem party does not allow a progressive to be nominated, we will never get to see if a progressive can win a prez election until a progressive runs outside the Dem party as an independent or third party candidate. If Bernie had run as an independent or third party candidate either time, he would have polled high enough that they would have had to let him into the prez debates, just like Perot in 1992, and I think he could have won last time or this time. But he didn't have the guts or integrity, unfortunately.