@VeronikaAnnJ I'm not fighting with you or anyone, never was, only responded honestly to this post and a question you had asked me. How do you know for certain Trump will indeed mess up Social Security? One's opinion does not automatically equate to fact, just because he is your father and you love him.

By the way I've no qualms with you changing your vote and agree voting is a serious thing. I take issue when someone makes a bold assertion/claim/statement and then turns around and suddenly says vice versa. Maybe just maybe not jump to conclusions and ride things out a little bit more so to speak, for example I didn't make any such commitments as it's still a few months before the Election. Anyway, that's just me, and I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who flipflops suddenly like that. To each his her own though I say on that.

Regarding the last part of your comment, wrongo... I never banned someone for merely disagreeing with me, I banned those who got combative with me or fellow group members and hurling personal attacks, big difference there than just disagreeing. I respect everyone's opinions whether I agree or not, but no one and I repeat no one should have to put up with personal attacks, that is called harassment and in most places is actually illegal. For the record, on SLUG I often get into disagreements with other members, but the difference there than with this site is that hardly anyone resorts to personal attacks on SLUG, and Admin himself at one point even mentioned that banning and such on SLUG is considerably less than on here. If calling out bad behaviors is your thing, fair enough, but there is no shortage of ill behaviors coming from the left-leaning groups, pays to keep that in mind. Like I said, if you decide to ever actually try to understand where we are coming from minus the crude assumptions, I'm open to talking about it.

@VeronikaAnnJ Yeah... this whole site is an echo chamber, but you were already aware of that though right? In reality you don't know anything about me either, and why at times some of us in the CA group act as we do. I've personally experienced negativity from the progressive crowd, and at times vent a little in the group, and for that I'm a bad person? I'm not hateful either, certainly no more than you or anyone else on here who rants over politics from time to time.

@VeronikaAnnJ Technically you were not absent from the group, I saw you pop up numerous times on the group posts under who recently viewed said posts. You don't have to be a member in order to view posts, and I consider such to be a form of participation as you have to look up the group directly. I care not that you changed your mind, you must understand based on some of my past experiences with people I'm leery when someone states one thing with relative certainty only to turn around later and say the opposite. I'm also fine with you calling me a hypocrite, but flipfloppers make me suspicious is all. I've been keeping up with what Trump has been saying, and I think some comments get taken out of context. Do you have any idea what it would take to reverse in any way Social Security? The Republicans have been entertaining that notion for years now and guess what? No changes, I wonder why? That's called pandering to your targeted audience, and both the Dems and Repubs are skilled at doing such. For years now the Dems have talked about undoing the Second Amendment, and surprise surprise... that hasn't happened and most likely never will knowing what it would take in order to accomplish such. That's scare tactics and nothing more, Trump being his usual boastful self. If anything negative happens with Social Security, it will most likely be due to the program itself collapsing under its own weight, and no one particular individual would be responsible for that.

@VeronikaAnnJ This is an echo chamber for agnostics and atheists, nothing more nothing less, we come here in this echo chamber to escape from the insanity that is religion even if it be a temporary retreat. I don't have a personal grudge against you, you think I'm a hypocrite and I now distrust you, and life goes on. Doesn't mean I hate you. Looks like we'll both have to be disappointed in each other, and I'm fine with that.

@VeronikaAnnJ No one is stopping you from bashing the CA group, just because you were banned that doesn't limit your free speech to bash, so if it pleases you then bash away. Like I mentioned before, if you can put the bashing aside for a moment I'm all game for a conversation on the matter.

If those individuals you mentioned above bother (or were bothering) you, maybe then focus on the individuals that don't engage in such behaviors, not everyone acts like that afterall. I see no point in engaging with such people, focus on those who do act civil, problem solved. I may vent about politicians etc, but I try to be civil with fellow site members until if any of them get personal with me.

You're right about Veteran and Jacar, neither of them bothered me, know why? If whenever they would rant on about say feminism, I for the most part would simply ignore them and try chatting with them later when they cooled down. They didn't bother me because I ignored their rants. Why give someone like that your precious time? For crying out loud when someone acts like that just ignore them. I don't have to agree or disagree with them, it's easier to just ignore folks like that. Don't you realize that when you give them an audience they will do more of the same, let them babble to themselves by ignoring them. Never once did I say specifically that I wasn't bothered by what they were rambling on about, big difference there. Don't give women haters an audience, and that does bother me, but I refuse to give such people the time of day. This is something else to consider... did you ever stop to think that maybe they viewed you as being a man hater? If that by chance be the case, who exactly would be right or wrong there? Of course, I don't think that matters much, both sides are already convinced they are correct and the other wrong, a communication breakdown occurs and we arrive to the current state of affairs, why politics and social issues have become so divisive in our country. No one hardly cares to try to understand how the other side feels, it is only about one's own perception on things.

@VeronikaAnnJ I get your point on the hate part, but it's worth pointing out that confronting such people over their prejudices will more likely than not cause them to go on the defensive, which is exactly what happened in your exchange with Veteran, you argued with him and he only resisted more. What did that accomplish? Maybe you're right that ignoring isn't always the best approach, but then again maybe confrontation isn't the best approach either. That's a complex issue with no easy solution. This is just my take on it, but having the politically correct police brigade running loose as you described kind of gives me the creeps. Either way you look at it, we're going around in circles on that much.

I've not the slightest clue what your political views still are, I only know and for a fact at that matter that at one time you said with much certainty that you were voting for Trump, and now that suddenly changed. Do what you think is right, I'm not knocking you for making your own choices per se. As for me, neither of them are good news.

@VeronikaAnnJ Veteran perceived that as man hating whether he was right or wrong. I don't remember that exchange. Some of their comments were questionable, and I didn't agree with them hence the bothered part, but I choose to ignore them. Who exactly has the authority to question someone else over perceived prejudices? Did you ever stop to think that you may have perceived something that in reality does not exist? Why is every guy who questions modern day feminism labeled as hateful or an incel? Maybe they aren't comfortable with such absolutes? The real problem in our society is among those who insist on associating with labels and titles, that causes division, which is why I'm registered Independent, can't say I care for labels. I'm sorry, the thought of some going around pointing the finger at others over perceived hate gives me the creeps, who exactly has that kind of authority to do something like that to another? See, that's why the Admin of this site felt the way he did, he realized the danger of a society as you described above where those who are merely suspected of any kind of prejudice get labeled and shamed, and he was right.

@VeronikaAnnJ You could have just reported said insane comment and let site support deal with it. These are digital exchanges, is it really worth getting that upset over someone you will never meet in person?

Both Biden and Trump said and continue to say some of the most ridiculous things, both are bad news. You wonder how anyone could support Trump, I wonder how anyone could support a guy who gets touchy feely with little kids. A lesser evil is still an evil, and both of them give me the creeps.

The logic behind banning you? That's simple... based on some of what you have recently said about me and the CA group and also some group posts, I don't trust you. Had a chat with Admin about such issues, and it's a pain for him and his staff when some members get flag happy, so he told me best thing is to just ban so they won't see the group posts. I don't know if it's you or someone else who has been flagging CA group posts and if it was you I don't expect you to say so, but I'm getting rather fed up with the nonsense and resorted to just banning. I don't need the headaches or drama. If you change your mind on how you perceive us I said the offer is still on the table and I'll unban you. I can't understand for all the gripes you have against the CA group why being banned would bother you so much? Someone has been flagging that group alot recently and site support isn't finding anything objectionable, no more so anyway than the leftwing groups who talk down conservatives. For the record, I don't enjoy banning anyone.

@VeronikaAnnJ This thread is getting long and every time I come back to it, the page takes forever to load. I did comment on another of your posts, maybe continue the convo there, but I need to get some sleep now, later.

@SpikeTalon

Two questions:

1. Do you write books or are you a professional blogger?
2. Are you a college professor or a public speaker?

What are you doing with the skill of articulating thoughts? If no, why TF not?

@St-Sinner Thank you for the compliment. Looks like she either paused or deleted her account, which in turn looks like I was chatting with myself above.

@SpikeTalon
She often comments and deletes her comments. I do not mind disagreements no matter how forceful but I would rather have a person stay and continue a civil discourse. I want to be convinced that I am incorrect rather be name called. A very few here do a decent civilized debate. Some prefer yelling, name calling or just running away and start telling others on your back how bad we are. That is rampant across Agnostic.com groups. All love bashing Trump but cannot name one thing he has done right while they cannot tell one bad thing about Biden or Bernie. That is so much for independent and free thinking. However, some have earned my respect in convincing me that I was wrong.

@St-Sinner Her last reply to me was snide, even though I tried to understand her perspective. Some people are locked into their own ways and don't care what the other side has to say, and resort to gaslighting. You're right, not many on here debate in a civil manner, part of the reason why I'm not as active on here much anymore.

@VeronikaAnnJ .

Very good. Welcome back. Lets argue some more.

@VeronikaAnnJ
It is true. I admit.

@VeronikaAnnJ

Look at it this way. If you practice debating with me, you will never lose an argument in life.... at work, in marriage, with friends, in a bar... That is a big benefit. Free counseling.

Plus we both can learn from each other.

@VeronikaAnnJ

I am only debating.

@VeronicaAnn I don't care about who you vote for or what you think about me, just pointed out a contradiction in your statements and nothing more nothing less.

I don't necessarily believe that rumor, I banned you at the request of some others who had concerns before that post even popped up, and some of them who said I should ban you aren't even members in the CA group. I don't care about other's crude assumptions about my character, I care about the needless member drama that occurs all too frequently on here. In short, I don't believe anyone in regards to that post, both them and you point the finger and none of that matters to me. Doesn't feel good now does it when someone spreads rumors about you, now you know how I feel when some members were gossiping about me in the Senate group.

This thread is getting too long, whenever I come back to this post the page takes forever to load. If you have a gripe with St Sinner then take that up with him, please stop tagging me here.

@VeronikaAnnJ Here's a sample a la Stephen Colbert.

@VeronikaAnnJ
Socialism is destroying America as we know it. Bernie praised Cuba. That should be scary to everyone.

Trump has personal bad vices but will never turn this country into Cuba. Trump can be stopped. Bernie's madness will destroy the spirit of America. Bernie has nothing to show for for 45 looooong years in Washington.... nothing at all.

But Trump haters will not understand it. You have to see very objectively and compare. Bernie has been a big failure. Trump at least could be elected president. Bernie tried for 7 long years, wasted people's money, energies, promised a pie in the sky but could not even carry the ball, fumbled and could not even get nominated. Bernie talks that he never delivers. He did not even have one attribute required to be president.... No charisma, no oratory, no good plan, no legislative achievements, no looks, no personality, no physical fitness, no right attributes, no good health, wanting the physically very rigorous, demanding job of president after a fresh heart attack..... He had no qualifications to be president.

Which big legislative achievement does Bernie stand out for in 45 years? Nobody can name one. That is Mr Bernie, the phony candidate who could never be president.

@VeronikaAnnJ

Trump got elected in his first try. Bernie tried for 7 years and failed miserably to even get the nomination.

Just compare there. Even a Trump hater would admit this fact.