From a talk on Forgiveness [agnostic.com]
16
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My forgiveness is the result of exhaustion.
I’m just too tired to keep carrying the resentment so I let it go.
Not that I forget.
Hate is too heavy for me to carry forever.
I don’t understand how white supremacist do it.
Willow_Wisp
Level 8
Sep 9, 2020
2
I believe that there are very few white supremacists in the USA and the rest of the world. But they get all the attention so the media can get good ratings and make money. I also believe there are very few minorities that feel they are being mistreated, only the news focus on the situation. As usual a few ruin everything for the majority.
@Grecio Then you haven't been in the South. You honestly don't remember hundreds of tiki torched men chanting "Jews will not replace us?" really? Those probably only represented local anti-humans. When I hear that Trump has 40% support I assume at least 75% are White Supremacist. Please prove me wrong, honestly, not some rhetorical trick. If I have to call a spade a spade I will.
These are interesting and very mixed comments . Your reaction is your reaction, but I do not see any taking a share of the blame for the situation. I have someone whom I am asking for forgiveness. However she went through such a trauma( nothing to do with me - it was more what I did not do) that asking to share the blame is the only option open to me.
Mcflewster
Level 8
Sep 9, 2020
0
Anybody that is part of the problem has to be part of the solution.
I figure the whole truth is in the last sentence......to insist on holding on, is masochistic
HankSherman
Level 8
Sep 9, 2020
2
"Forgive and Forget," to this I say twaddle.
Should I forgive and forget ANY of the following, I ask you,
A) the years and years of mental, physical torment that my 'mother ??' put me through,
B) and the worst of all btw, the treatment the 'mother ???' of my daughter, Lorrae, got when she was going through Chemotherapy aged a mere 15 years old and this 'woman' ONLY came the 300+ miles ONCE to see her and then ONLY because it fitted in with HER scheduled Appointment with an Eye Specialist in the same City,
C) the same woman who, when informed that her child had between 7 and 10 days to live stated quite empathically that "tell that selfish little bitch that she'll have to wait because MY friends need me more than she does," that same child who passed away 24 hours later with me by her side as I had been 24/7 for the last 12 months,
D) the self-same woman who immediately, upon hearing that her ONLY child had died, went directly to the local Credit Union where my daughter had her bank account and DEMANDED that she be permitted to withdraw ALL Lorrae's funds and close the account, got very irrate when informed that " Only the Custodial Parent can be allowed to do so upon presenting the Death Certificate and ALL monies MUST be used to cover as much as possible the Funeral Expenses,
E) the self-same woman, who, less than a week AFTER her child was cremated, DEMANDED that the grieving father 'pack up and return ALL Xmas gifts No matter from whom they were received), etc, etc, of her late daughter to her and her alone and that SHE would be collecting them in person within the next 3 hours.
Triphid
Level 9
Sep 8, 2020
1
Don’t forgive and forget, remember what you learnt or you may go through the hooha again. My Dad’s a narcissist too, i still see him a few times a year, it’s interesting, he has very little self awareness at 70, but he can never put me through my childhood again.
@Triphid .Forgiveness is meant to help YOU, but I admit you have a mountain to climb
@Mcflewster Not any more, that 'mountain' is now little more than a small stack of ashes since that utter, unmitigated, low-life bitch has died and was cremated.
Once that occurred I had my opportunity to fulfill the last of Lorrae's dying wishes, i.e. I actually went and pissed on her grave, not physical though, I 'saved' up 3 litres of my urine and tipped it over her grave.
@girlwithsmiles Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
@Grecio sorry i do not understand your reference to fooling people. Does that relate to not forgetting and repeating mistakes?
I might get over something in order to go on forward. That does not mean I have "forgiven" anything. Do I forgive the man who murdered my grandson? Hell no. I wish him the same kind of death. It's just that I'm not constantly dwelling on this.
DenoPenno
Level 9
Sep 8, 2020
2
`you have achieved something , no matter what name you give it. Well done.
Fiddlesticks. There are situations in life that are unforgiveable. I am not going to forgive anyone who has deliberately done me harm. I am going to forgive myself that I put up with that situation because I did not know any different or had nowhere else to turn.
Jolanta
Level 9
Sep 8, 2020
3
Well said. If the harm done to me was deliberate and the one who did the harm feels no remorse, there is no reason I should forgive. They don't deserve it. Just because I don't forgive does not mean I'm clinging to toxic feelings that are consuming me, or that I'm unable to "let it go," it simply means that I can't be manipulated into buying the new-age-y bullshit that expending my emotional generosity on the undeserving will, by any crazy stretch of the imagination, make me feel any better. That whole premise defies logic.
@Deb57 "Let Go" has the same effect as "forgiveness".
Here's an interesting piece of writing from Maimonides:
One achieves holiness, not by becoming like God (hardly a possibility for any creature), but by imitating God’s attributes of action; by acting, as it were, like God.” Forgiveness is the human act that imitates God’s mercy and graciousness. Forgiveness restores relations between people, is a check against developing a disposition of resentment and vengeance, and in being a check against that, it serves the aspiration to attain intellectual perfection.
brentan
Level 8
Sep 8, 2020
1
" imitating God’s attributes of action" yes not because you are a god but because you are a good HUMAN.
I've heard this nonsense a million times. One woman harped on me so much about how forgiveness is for me and how you can choose how you feel about things. When she was devastated after a horrible family incident resulted in the breakup of her marriage, it took everything in me not to tell her to choose to be happy about her loss and forgive her father and husband.
You can't choose how you feel.
Saying 'I forgive you' is not the same as actually forgiving someone.
ChestRockfield
Level 8
Sep 8, 2020
2
There are people who don't deserve forgiveness, generally it's best just not to think about them when that's possible.
Theresa_N
Level 8
Sep 8, 2020
5
In my mind, forgiveness implies a restoration or the beginning of restoration of trust with the person with is to be forgiven. I would agree with your assessment because some people behave with such aggregious betrayals of trust that they should never be trusted again. In this way, they should not be forgiven, just forgotten (at least until they try to reenter your life).
![[agnostic.com]](https://agnostic.com/images/posts/62206_82a869r9gcdqdb4_full.jpeg?v=2){kind=link}
I also think grudges can serve a purpose, too. Once bitten, twice shy.
AgeofReason
Level 5
Sep 8, 2020
4
As a learning experience of course.
@MissKathleen Those are not mutually exclusive.
@MissKathleen Carrying a grudge and being able to civilly interact with someone.
@MissKathleen I’m a big proponent for peace of mind. Even knowing the grudge only hurts me more, I still have trouble letting go sometimes. We all have faults. I just do the best I can, and try not to be consumed by something.
@AgeofReason If that brings you peace of mind, that's great for you. For a lot of people, myself included, it would bring more turmoil knowing people were getting away with being assholes, probably because I know Karma doesn't exist and it's up to people to right wrongs themselves.
@MissKathleen There are probably billions, even trillions of people that are living proof. People who feel they've been wronged and if given the opportunity, will seize a chance a righting it. It's what the phrase "Revenge is a dish best served cold" is all about.
@JeffMurray how are you ‘righting the wrongs’? Sometimes there is no resolution—that’s where the grudge comes into play, and I find it’s best not to think about it. Wasted energy.
@AgeofReason It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does it's sweeter than Yoo-hoo. Anyway, you don't need to think about or be consumed by a grudge. It can just sit quietly in your memory without a thought for months or years until an opportunity arises.
@AgeofReason We have to be able to forgive ourselves, so we must be able to forgive others.
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