Oh hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa

Bernie certainly is a socialist. Neither he, nor any of the far Left in Congress, have ever advocated or excused attempts to overthrow democracy, nor to use violence to steal an election, nor to install an autocrat.
There was s a huge and fundamental difference. Right now the House minority leadership under Kevin McCarthy, is acting blatantly anti-democracy, and that is NOT okay.
Americans need a history primer in just how democracy collapsed in 1930s Germany, when Hitler eeked out an election win and then dismantled parlaiment to seize control....AND unleashed his riotous militia-minded Brownshirts thugs to intimidate and often murder any and all opposition. Trump has been following an obvious classic fascist playbook, and anyone who dismisses that with a cry of "but the other side is just as bad!" Excuse is either painfully ignorant or inexcusably disingenuous.

This might be a surprise to some, but the word "socialist" is not as concerning as "Domestic terrorist" or "White supremacist" and I didn't see any socialists attempting a forceful takeover of the country while invalidating millions of votes.

If Bernie tries to take over the capitol by force or cheer for the assassination of any of his fellow members of congress or starts spouting off about how the color of his skin makes him special, you might have a point. But since he didn't do any of that your "both sides/false equivalence" argument just sounds silly.

@redbai

I agree it is a rather false equivalency. Radical Socialist is a more dangerous type. More dangerous than white supremacists and domestic terrorists. Radical socialists are just more white collar terrorists who loot money from the rich and successful through government programs and distribute to their pet programs.

@redbai, @MikeInBatonRouge

Bernie is also a communist although he lies through his teeth everywhere.

Take a look at the videos below and tell me what does it sound like? Please tell me like they say about the Bible, "Jesus really did not mean that..."

Praising Cuban regime
Praising Venezuela communism
Praising Sandinista government in Nicaragua
Saying nobody should earn more than a million Dollars
Choosing Moscow in communist USSR for honeymoon among all places

This man is unfit to serve in any public office. If you don't think Bernie was a communist, you count as a fanatic among other fanatics who are delusional and do not accept the facts. You know who other fanatic types are?

@AnneWimsey

I hope you didn't mind I telling the truth.

@St-Sinner You'd have to be either white (thus not concerned with the threat of white supremacists or domestic terrorism mostly done by white terrorists) without a concern for the welfare of POC or delusional to believe that socialism is worse that white supremacy and domestic terrorism.

I couldn't care less what's in those videos unless it's images of him killing capitol police or breaking into federal buildings to overthrow the government. In this country citizens have freedom of speech and as such can belong to any legal political party they wish. If the communist party tries to take the capitol building and kill members of congress and Bernie is standing next to a hangman's noose with hordes surrounding him calling for the death of the VP you can come back with that BS.

@redbai

You cannot call out the enemy on the other side and not recognize the threat from within. Radical socialists in the most successful capitalist economy of the world is a threat to the nation and the society. Radical socialists must be eradicated.

Do we speak the truth here or you think it is ranting platform for your BS?

@St-Sinner An intelligent person can indeed call out the enemy and recognize any "relevant" internal threats, assess their relative value and also discuss both separately. But that's not even remotely the subject of the thread, your pathetic attempt to change the subject is noted.

Interesting how you simply ignore the very material harm done by white supremacists and domestic terrorism focused on POC and this country. It's almost as if you don't give a damn because you believe your 401k might be negatively affected or you have concern for the loss of privilege by social dynamics that favor you because of something you have done nothing to deserve.

Now why don't you try and discuss the subject of white racists trying to overthrow the government instead of facile attempts to distract to something your more comfortable discussing? Can't you discuss demonstrable racism and terrorism intelligently or are you one of those purposely obtuse people who deny it's relevance? Is your inability to actually recognize demonstrated racism the reason you avoid the subject by attempting to change it?

@redbai

There is no intelligence in it. Don't glorify your wrong argument. It is black and white. Radical socialists, communists, white supremacists and domestic terrorists are all equally criminal and harmful to American people.

You are blind to problems on our own side but they must be recognized and dealt with it. The Bernie Cult Must Perish. $15 per hour wage, handouts to the poor, food stamps, loan forgiveness, free giveaways, free education, everything free, free and free.... that is paid by other taxpayers is horrific and will destroy the society from within.

@St-Sinner My argument isn't "wrong" until you demonstrate it as being such. You haven't because pomposity nor deflection are evidence and that's all you've offered. You haven't demonstrated that socialism is anything but a word that you're afraid of and nothing you've offered makes them remotely as dangerous as people violently invading the capitol building to forcefully take over the country.

Stop saying we're on the same side, it's not true. If you don't see domestic terrorism as THE issue in this country today after they actually attempted to forcefully take over the country, I don't think you have a rational perspective and whatever it is it's not something that I share with you. You apparently tend to mitigate the crimes of white racist terrorists for some reason and are purposely oblivious to your ignorance.

@redbai

I don't need to demonstrate anything. Bernie has been showcasing his stupidity for 30 years and especially for the last 6 years riding on your money of how he would destroy America... it is America - not just the Capitol Hill, not just a street or a city... He was talking about fucking up the whole country. If you don't understand that you lose the right to criticize anyone else. You don't have an argument.

@St-Sinner Saying that you don't need to demonstrate anything is an admission that you don't have anything to demonstrate the veracity of your claim. You sound like a theist talking about their evidence for god, it's supposed to be self-evident because of your hubris and purposeful ignorance. The only thing I don't have is an argument that you will address honestly and without unnecessary obfuscation to distract to something you're more comfortable with. Thanks for playing, exposing the hypocritical ignorance like what you've offered is one of the small pleasantries that life provides.

@redbai
There is no admission and there will not be a demonstration. You need to open eyes and begin seeing things clearly. It should a simple thing to do. Your sense of right and wrong is currently fucked up.

@St-Sinner It's pretty obvious there's no demonstration for the same reason theists provide none, you have none. If you had one, you'd present it just to demonstrate you're correct. Either that or you're so pompous as to believe people should accept what you say just because you say it (FTR, I don't rule that out). You're just making shit up that makes you feel good about the decisions you make without regard for anyone but yourself. It's selfish and borish, but seems to be a trend for those who attempt to mitigate the crimes of traitors and racists.

@redbai

It is not obvious and you don't yet understand it. I explained why and how radical socialists are dangerous. You are like a parent who is blinded by the love for his own kid and sees everything wrong with other kids.

@St-Sinner No, you SAID they were dangerous you haven't explained why they are any more dangerous than republicans or democrats and you certainly haven't demonstrated they are as dangerous as white supremacists or those who attacked the country's capital. You don't like Bernie so socialists are dangerous. That's infantile BS and you're apparently not bright enough to see it.

Your pathetic inability to actually address the OP is obvious.

@redbai

Did you take economics in college? Do you understand anything about what socialism and communism do to economy? Do you understand what radical socialists are about? Have you lived in a socialist country under shortages, rations and police state? Do you understand what Occupy Wall Streeter did across the country and if they did anything good to the society? If not, you have to learn plenty and not come to argue with me. You are naïve about what I am talking about. Come back in another life.

@St-Sinner There's that pomposity without explanation again. You seem to believe that claiming your smarter and understand more without actually having to demonstrate it means something. You're wrong. I live under a capitalistic system and I don't see anything economically wrong in a communist countries that don't happen here. I don't ignore the oppression of people who don't look like me so I probably have a different perspective of America than you do.

Ignoring racism and domestic terrorism in an effort to forcefully overthrow the government isn't a luxury I and most other loyal Americans get to pretend doesn't exist. Your priorities are obviously different for personal reasons.

@St-Sinner gee,I dunno, how about asking how the economies of Scandinavia are doing, why doncha?

@St-Sinner Cherry-picking again? Shame on you!

@AnneWimsey

That's the grave mistake we have been making while listening to the kinds like Bernie. We are a very large economy with many many legs to run on and not anywhere close like Scandinavia's economy. This comparison itself is ridiculous and Bernie has been selling this snake oil to you for years just as he was touting Cuba as the model regime and society. Do you want us to be like Cuba also?

@St-Sinner last I looked, they were Covid free......

@redbai

I am not smarter but I certainly believe that I can comprehend better, am pragmatic and am a better observer on the ground. I don't live in academics, books and avoid writing long when brief and direct does it. When you have clarity, you really don't need to write long responses.

@AnneWimsey

Covid free? So is Wuhan today.

@St-Sinner Z There appears to be no end to your hubris. You're not smarter but you comprehend better? What is "smarter" if not having a better comprehension than others of the world and how to interact within it?

And as usual, you avoid the actual subject of racism. A clear clue that you have no problem with racism as it exists in this country making it easy to infer you have the personality of a person who sympathizes with their perspective. Not surprised, just putting it out there as factual. Your inability to actually address the subject should let it stand for what it is.

When you cannot support your claims, that too shortens your responses. Now that's a phrase that seems to define you better.

@St-Sinner Your as yet unclarified definition for Radical Socialist must be pretty good. (I am guessing it is s indistinguishable from communism, which pushes for violent overthrow of governments and elimination of privately owned property.) Because otherwise your argument flies off the rails when you claim it is ".. worse than white supremacists and domestic terrorists." Uh, NO. Not unless said socialist adopts terrorist tactics. Sanders has never done that.
I am not arguing as an ardent Bernie fan. He is very idealistic, and I don't share all his precise aims or apparent beliefs.
BUT I completely agree with Redbai's point that your focus on Bernie and the socialists in the context of what has just happened in our government is a complete red herring, and your blithe dismissal of the plight of people of color in the face of armed White supremicist insurrectionists with clear supporters having deeply infiltrated both our law enforcement and government at all levels....that dismissal on your part shows your own White privilege bias and callous disregard for the plight of minorities.

@MikeInBatonRouge

I am bed now, will come back tomorrow for some more.

@St-Sinner, @redbai Pomposity is right.
I have a sociology degree, not economics one, but imo even more relevant. And I have read my share of Robert Reich and Paul Krugman economics writings. Bully for me. But degrees alone don't guarantee a person is THE authority on a subject. Look at all the economists at each other's throats. Sociologists, too, for that matter.
St. Sinner makes the all-too-common mistake(probably intentionally) of ignoring all distinctions among various ideas of socialism. Ignoring the fact that socialism only arose in the first place out of the glaring ( and I mean GLARING) abuses of capitalism. Pure capitalism is as impossible to sustain as pure socialism. The two terms represent economic model ideals but not practical or sustainable realities. Arguing which is right and which is wrong is pathetically myopic., Juvenile even. The world is not that binary. Capitalism NEEDS elements of socialsm to save it from imploding under its own weight. Scandinavia has come as close to hitting the sweetspot balance as this world has seen. Capitalism with robust safety rails. That is what democratic socialism is. And it rocks.
Radical socialism??? Apparently something completely different. It is the red herring bogey man the likes of U.S. conservatives scream about to deflect from the actual horrors that unregulated, unchecked capitalism has already inflicted on this country and does so increasingly. As Reich says, current U.S. capitalism is dangerously out of balance, very far from what is was in our post-WWII economic boom, and it is more than overdue for a course correction.

@MikeInBatonRouge

Ok, I am back.

No Surprise that you cannot see Objectively
There is no surprise that you don't think Bernie and his followers are not as bad as the far right wingers. It is because we always think we are right and somebody else is wrong. It is a human phenomenon. It is hard to stand away from your environment, constant daily messaging that suits us and instead think objectively.

We are a Mirror Image of Conservative Thinkers
What we progressives are seeing here is exactly a mirror image of what conservative groups see what is bad on our sides. They see their side is holier-than-though, virtuous, people with family values, some god loving, patriotic, fiscally conservative etc. They see us as baby killers, socialist, communist leaning, extreme thinking, borrow and spend, income and wealth redistributors and unpatriotic who see what is bad with America and only see what is good in tiny Scandinavian countries. Therefore, I do not expect you to see objectively.

I am a Non Brainwashed Outsider
I can look at issues an outsider because I am one. I am hardly brainwashed in the environments here - either conservative or progressive. I did not grow up here. I do not hold preconceived notions. From what I see Bernie, the Occupy Wall Streeters, the Oregon and Washington state looters and rioters, wealth redistributors and the kinds who want to take your money and keep giving things free to everybody are as bad if not worse than all right wingers. The acts may be different but the effect and dangers are the same from both extremes.

Bernie and his Cult are Extremists and Fear Mongers
Bernie is not a uniter, he is a divider, polarizer and fear monger. He has polarized Democrats across the nation that he intended to lead. That is more dangerous than people who just fight for their ideas. Bernie has added no value to Democrats cause but has caused more nuisance and harm to our cause. He caused us to lose seats in the house and senate due to his socialist rants. He has no base except a small weirdo far left extreme fringe group and he keeps coming back to claim the Democratic Party platform. he has been thrown out twice by voters. Don't try to make light of who is and what harm he has caused top Democrats and American people's progress. Bernie was, is and will be a bad candidate and a bad leader. The Bernie movement is nothing but a cult. Nothing more and this cult must perish.

Therefore, I repeat, Bernie and his cult are as bad as the right winger rioters. Make no mistake about it.

@St-Sinner, there is that Pomposity again. Mr More-Objective-Than-Thou.
Of course I am not entirely objective. No one with any values and priorities is. But I am certainly able to consider different sides of issues.

Curious that you consider youself to be objective, though, for being "an outsider," not grown up "here," however you define that. You think only people from "here" have preconceptions? Hahahahahahaha! That is rich.
BTW, I have not lived in one region, or even one country, my whole life, either. You seem to find it easy to make a lot of assumptions about the rest of us on this site.

You referenced yourself as "we progressives" but then turned right around and claimed to be "neither brainwashed by conservative nor progressive environments." You contradict yourself, even as you judge me or others here. But I don't expect you to understand, poor confused outsider that you are. It must be difficult for you to decipher nuanced meaning of our local communication patterns. I will try to dumb it down for you in the future.

@MikeInBatonRouge

Don't dumb it down, perk it up.