Who's left in government? Nobody, there is no one representing us and our needs.

@RoboGraham Right. Maybe Qanon is more like if for you? You're bored, have no life.

@Storm1752

Same to ya

No, I don't think democrats did those things. Just because they are nominally on the same side doesn't mean one faction is responsible for the actions of the other. It's kind of like how the USA and USSR were on the same side during WW2 but the Russians weren't responsible for the dropping of nuclear bombs on Japan and the Americans weren't responsible for the invasion of Poland and Finland.

Both the democrats and republicans are on the side of the wealthiest Americans and corporations and are against the working class. There are big differences between them, but when it comes down to it, neither of them are on our side.

I've never made the claim that Democrats are the same as Republicans. Where did you get that idea?

@RoboGraham You said you oppose Democrats because they are on the same side as Republicans. You never said similar to Republicans. So the Relief Bill of 1.9Trillion that the Democrats put through with every Republican voting against it was the Democrats being the same as republicans.Are you saying there is NO relief for the working class in this bill. Now that the Dems have some power in Government you are going to have to say that all the things they will do for the working poor and working class in the US makes them no different to Republicans. So when Joe Biden said we should have a 15 Dollar an hour minimum wage he was being the same as Republicans. Your position is starting to lose what little credibility it had already I'm afraid

@dermot235

"So the Relief Bill of 1.9Trillion that the Democrats put through with every Republican voting against it was the Democrats being the same as republicans." No, that makes no sense. As I said before, they are not the same.

Of course there is SOME relief for the working class in the bill. It falls very very short of what is needed, but there is some. It's very similar to the previous relief bills passed under the republican administration. Expansion of unemployment benefits, student loan deferment, stimulus checks, etc. Some good stuff. And of course, there will be money for big business, as always.

"Now that the Dems have some power in Government you are going to have to say that all the things they will do for the working poor and working class in the US makes them no different to Republicans" No, I've never claimed that there is no difference. I've no doubt that the working class will be a bit better off under the democratic administration.

Joe Biden only agreed to the $15 min wage because he had to make a concession to Bernie and the progressives. He never intended to keep this promise of course. Just like the promise he made in Georgia that $2,000 stimulus checks would go out immediately. The democrats have the power to keep the $15 min wage in the bill and they are making the choice not to. They never intended to give American workers a living wage. As always, they pay lip service to the needs of the working class but do not follow through. Instead, they do what is best for their wealthy donors.

@dermot235

If you believe that the democratic establishment supports a living wage, I'm sorry, but you've been duped.

@Zoltans_Queen I never said that. But I do know there is a big difference between Trump and Biden. And in Policy as well as personality. Take any of the following policy issues such as Foreign Policy, Health Care, LGBTQ rights, Green energy, and so on and I'll gladly debate the difference between Repugs and Dems

@Zoltans_Queen, @RoboGraham The VAST majority of funds in the Relief Bill go to low income, middle income and unemployed Americans. And as for your point on the Previous Relief Bill. It was the Dems that controlled the house and the bill had most of what the Dems wanted. Now you want to rewrite history

@dermot235

This bill will mostly benefit low and middle income people? I'll believe it when I see it.

Right, the dems controlled the house and the bill was mostly the way that they wanted it to be. And what they wanted was a gargantuan bailout for corporations, no expansion of healthcare during a health crisis while millions were losing jobs and health coverage with it, no monthly UBI to keep people afloat during the economic shut down, they didn't require that companies who took bailout money refrain from firing employees, they didn't attempt to keep people in their jobs, preferring to instead allow employers to lay people off forcing millions to rely on unemployment, and we the people received a $1,200 check.

How did they handle it over there in Ireland? Would you have been satisfied with what the democrats agreed to over here?

There is a difference. No one is saying that there's no difference.

@Zoltans_Queen No one? Some people are. You are aware that there's a district difference. The OP implies that there's not. You and me are apparently in agreement but speak for yourself.

@barjoe

No, he said that they are on the same side. Not that there is no difference. There's a difference.

Here's what eh said.- "No, I don't think democrats did those things. Just because they are nominally on the same side doesn't mean one faction is responsible for the actions of the other. It's kind of like how the USA and USSR were on the same side during WW2 but the Russians weren't responsible for the dropping of nuclear bombs on Japan and the Americans weren't responsible for the invasion of Poland and Finland. "

@Zoltans_Queen

Thank you, that's exactly right.

@Zoltans_Queen USSR didn't have the nukes to drop or they would've probably used them in Europe.

@barjoe

Okay Boomer, way to completely sidestep the point.

@Zoltans_Queen Boomer? Wasn't side stepping. You brought up WWII that was the side step. You don't have to get nasty. SMH

@Zoltans_Queen, @RoboGraham Finland was invaded by Russia not as an ally of America.

And you made an interesting point when Zoltans said
"It's kind of like how the USA and USSR were on the same side during WW2"
So does that mean that FDR was on the same side as Stalin in every way.????

Did FDR Purge 30 million citizens for being enemies of the people.

Your arguments are full of holes and you need to take some history lessons.
It's almost like you are saying that if Stalin and FDR were running for President of the US you would say they are on the same side so Why vote for FDR.

@barjoe

I didn't bring it up. Robograhsm said that to demonstrate that it is possible to be on the same side and also not be the same. But it seems as though you are unable to understand that point.

@dermot235

"Finland was invaded by Russia not as an ally of America. " How is that relevant? The point is that, they were on the same side, but were also different and not responsible for what the other did.

No, it doesn't mean that FDR and Stalin were on the same side in every way. Obviously. They had one big thing uniting them, otherwise, they were very different. And no, it doesn't mean FDR purged a bunch of people. I've been saying all along that being on the same side doesn't mean being the same.

FDR and Stalin were on the same side in a good way, in that, both were fighting fascism. So FDR having that particular characteristic in common with Stalin is a very good thing and would make me even more enthusiastic about voting for him.

The dems and repubs, on the other hand, are on the same side in that, they both govern in favor of the wealthy who fund their political campaigns while mostly ignoring the working class and they feed the MIC and engage in all sorts of destructive military adventures all around the world and they feed off of imperialism and the exploitation desperate poor people in other countries. That is why I oppose both of them. Do you disagree with that?

I don't oppose democrats because I'm on the side of republicans. I oppose democrats because they are on the side of republicans.

@Zoltans_Queen it's all good. The boomer comment wasn't called for. Age had nothing to do with anything.

@barjoe

That's true. That's just how I tend to react when I see boomers say ridiculous things.

@RoboGraham

I don't see how an informed person could disagree with that.

@Zoltans_Queen I didn't say anything ridiculous and you shouldn't label people. We disagree, no need for ageism. Don't know your age group, but don't let people get generational on you. Lots of people pick on millennials as well. It's wrong.

@RoboGraham When it came to Finland they were NOT on the same side.

And to say that Democrats treat the wealthy with the same deference as the Republicans do is JUST nonsense.

while mostly ignoring the working class your said. Do the Republican not totally ignore the working class. Are the Dems not the better of 2 evils. Should we not vote for the better of 2 options presented to us when confronted by problems we have little control over.

@dermot235

I never said they were on the side of the Russians concerning Finland. I said that America wasn't responsible for what Russia did, just as Russia wasn't responsible for what America did.

Apparently, the lip service that democrats pay to working class issues has made an impression on you. Both parties treat the wealthy with massive deference. The democrats do it less publicly.

The democrats are of course the less evil evil. And there it is, they are evil, how anyone can support evil and claim to be a decent human person is beyond me.

We should vote for someone outside of the two evils. At least that way, the democratic evil will see that if they don't cut it out with all the evil, they will constantly lose votes to socialists. That could actually motivate them to not be evil, if enough of us stop supporting it and vote for good rather than evil.

@RoboGraham You can't even bring your self to admit that the democrats do more for working people than the Repugs. Just say it. You know it's true. I'm under no illusion as to haw far to the centre Biden is. And I want the same outcomes as you do. And the Democrats can really piss me off sometimes when they don't go far enough in what they do. But they ARE better than the Republicans and more so than you are willing to give them credit for.

@dermot235

I'll give credit where credit is due. And I have said that they are better to some extent. I've said that plenty.

You haven't responded to my other comment. I'm curious as to what you think of those two questions at the end.

This bill will mostly benefit low and middle income people? I'll believe it when I see it.

Right, the dems controlled the house and the bill was mostly the way that they wanted it to be. And what they wanted was a gargantuan bailout for corporations, no expansion of healthcare during a health crisis while millions were losing jobs and health coverage with it, no monthly UBI to keep people afloat during the economic shut down, they didn't require that companies who took bailout money refrain from firing employees, they didn't attempt to keep people in their jobs, preferring to instead allow employers to lay people off forcing millions to rely on unemployment, and we the people received a $1,200 check.

How did they handle it over there in Ireland? Would you have been satisfied with what the democrats agreed to over here?

@RoboGraham You can believe it now. Millions of people have now been protected from evictions. Families can pay their mortgages again with the Bail out relief Cheques. The Majority of the Relief Bill money goes to Ordinary people. That's just a fact.

And as to how we handled it in Ireland.
The Government gave everyone who was and is out of work (That includes ME) due to lockdowns and restrictions, a pandemic Payment that is about double the unemployment payment normally given. We Banned Evictions from Properties. And the Banks were made give a 6 month Mortgage break to anyone that asked for it. And some banks gave 1 year breaks. And the Government took over all the Private hospitals to enhance the Public health service, so they could cope with Covid Hospital admissions. So we never got to the point of having no ICU beds available for example. And all the Political class from left to right supported decisions based on advise given by Medical Professionals. And our daily press conferences on Covid were not done by the Prime Minister but by our Chief Medical officer and our Doctors. We've been in Lockdown now for 8 weeks this year and it's not finished for another 4 weeks. But we got the last surge down from 8000 cases a day to about 500 a day. And when we open up it will not be restaurant and Bars opening yet. They have to wait until June or July maybe. The Plan is to keep covid at bay while our Vaccination Programme continues. And over 80% are favouring taking the Vaccine. And that's going up each week. So we should have herd immunity by the summer or late summer at worst.