LINK How Men Treat Women They Find Unfuckable
TWs - talk about body size and body shaming.
Dozens of women say that after a change in physical appearance — gaining weight, aging or becoming ill — they have been either ignored or treated like shit by men
When Anne, a 31-year-old administrative assistant in Chicago, noticed that two colleagues in her workplace were both obsessed with the New York Times crossword, she thought it would be nice to introduce them. “He was a 50-year-old guy who I’d occasionally go to lunch with, and I figured they were around the same age,” she tells me. “I work in a big office, and often people from different teams don’t ever work together.” The exchange, however, didn’t go according to plan. “When I told him about her and suggested she was really smart, he responded by saying, ‘I wouldn’t know,’” she continues. “‘I only speak to beautiful women.’”
The experience was jarring for Anne, but she says it’s not the only situation she’s faced like it, both with that same man — who she describes as “not particularly attractive himself” — and others. “Just a week ago, I was with a guy in his mid-30s who I was casually dating,” she says. “He told me, ‘If a girl isn’t pretty, I don’t actually see her as a girl.’”
7
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16 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Recently I had a conversation with a man who made it clear that one of his female friends was not up for consideration as a partner due to her weight. It was a total turn-off at the time, and the more I have thought about how dismissive about this woman he was, for such a shallow reason, the less I care to interact with him or anyone like him. Of course we have preferences, and are all turned on or off by physical aspects of others, but to be treated as a non-person because we have no sexual value seems to happen to women a whole lot more often than it does to men. I'm over 60 and decidedly plump. I will never be young or thin again, however, I'm still an attractive woman and an amazing catch. I won't ever waste another minute of my life on a man with a shallow character.
Deb57
Level 8
Apr 10, 2021
2
It has happened plenty to me, Deb. Lots of women are willing to be friends with me, but would never consider dating me because I'm bald, not muscular or athletic, and not rich. Women gain weight with age, men go bald, gain weight, and lose their muscles, the reaction by the respective genders is the same. You become invisible, asexual, and out of consideration sexually and romantically. So, like Sticks says below, it goes both ways, not men doing that more than women do. I think most men and women are pretty much the same in this way and the man you were talking with was just more honest than most people are, of both genders. I still have most of my messages with Batch not even read by the women I reach out to, much less have them view my profile, and it's undoubtedly because they simply look at my main profile pic and conclude I am not attractive-looking enough to even bother reading my message.
So much for all the platitudes and cliches I see in women's profiles about how important honesty, integrity, communication, etc. are to them in seeking a partner. Yeah, all those things matter as long as the guy looks and dresses like Brad Pitt and he makes six figures.
Having said that, I don't think that having no attraction or interest in dating someone because their looks aren't appealing to you is the same thing as treating them as a non-person. And I have made it clear multiple times that I think you are an attractive woman and a catch. But the generalization holds true for both genders and in online dating almost nobody is on there to meet people for and create platonic friendships. Most of us already have plenty of friends before we brave the harsh world of the dating scene. And we'd better have them if we are not above average looking, because the amount of rejection would be unbearable without the emotional support of some friends to help give us continued validation and reinforcement that we have something to offer others. We enter the dating arena because we want to add something sexual and deeper to our lives than what we have in our existing friendships.
My first husband was a short guy. My second husband was bald. My third husband was overweight and had black skin. My fourth husband was a skinny guy. I don't think I could conceivably be called shallow when it comes to looks. At this point in my life, it's all about character for me.
@Deb57 I believe you and your open-mindedness is very admirable. But I think you are quite an anomaly. For every person like you, male or female, I think there are tens or even a hundred that we both would call shallow when it comes to looks. After all the negative experiences you've had with LTR partners, it makes perfect sense that you should only care about character at this point. It shows that you have learned and grown from your mistakes in past choices. Unfortunately, most people, men and women, keep choosing either the same dysfunctional personality type, or even different dysfunctional types, with a different name and package each time. And the common thread in all of it is them, but they will never admit it or seek to change it about themselves.
And that's the main reason that in online dating, I go out of my way to put most of my effort and attention towards women that, like me, are widowed. But the problem is that in my age group, they make up only about 20% of the dating pool in my area on Batch. It's probably about the same % with other dating sites, unless you are talking about one that is mostly made up of people much older than me.
It is a two way street. There are are women who think I'm too skinny, some think mI am too bald, or aren't interested because I don't have enough money. I really don't care. Some women find me attractive for whatever reason or reasons and some don't.Too many men and women can't except the fact men and women are NOT THE SAME! There are biological reasons we are different, and those differences are there for reasons that have nothing to do with societal changes which fluctuate over time and can differ from country to country or even city to city. There are women who are beautiful by most peoples standards whom I have never thought were the least bit sexy (Elizabeth Taylor, Julia Roberts) and other women I have met who weren't beautiful but because of the combination of their looks and personality l find them very attractive. We are attracted to whomever we are attracted to for whatever reason or reasons and that is just the way it is. Accept it or not, that will never change.
Sticks48
Level 9
Apr 8, 2021
4
As always, Sticks, word......bravo. My longtime crush among celeb women has always been Susan Sarandon, but nowadays most men my age would probably say she is too old..... but I don't give a rat's ass even tho she's 12 years older than me.
@TomMcGiverin I agree.
@Sticks48 Best of all, she appears to prefer younger men, lol...
When one, as myself, reaches a certain 'stage of life' ones view of another's exterior should take a back-seat to ones view of their interior. Character should be paramount to a relationship especially in later, post-childbearing times. Problem is, I continue to encounter women that are just as obsessed with a mans looks and/or size as a mans with a woman's. Shallowness is not gender specific.
JackPedigo
Level 9
Apr 8, 2021
2
The last article I read here was about a woman who complained that a man was attracted to her voice.
Let's be honest here - women don't want to be approached by men who aren't studly. I don't talk to women I don't already know because they freak out!
BitFlipper
Level 8
Apr 8, 2021
3
I don't go for the studly men. I go for the men with big vocabularies. Yes, I like nerds. Studly guys generally like team sports on TV, which I loathe. Studly guys tend to like cars, I like cars that get me from point A to point B without any trouble but I don't rhapsodize about it. Of course nerdly guys tend to get into Star Wars, or Star Trek, or Comic Com, or other odd stuff. However, I still will go brains over brawn any day.
@HippieChick58 You are a rare gem in that respect, Paula. I do find that women here on Agnostic., compared to the mainstream population on sites like Batch, do tend to put more emphasis on brains and heart than looks, but even here there are exceptions, such as when I first joined on here and messaged a handful of women who ranged from average looking to above average looking. And struck out with all of them, never meeting a one of them. My guess is that, because they were all from Iowa, and thus, more part of the mainstream culture than most women on Agnostic, who tend to live in more progressive areas than Iowa, they have the same mindset about looks as the women on Batch in my area. Also, none of them appeared to be that interested in the atheist community in general, as they all left the site for good within a year or so after joining and also never got above level 2, seldom participating in the forums.
Even tho I am prone to often use the F-word myself, I find the use here of the term unfuckable gratuitously vulgar and somewhat offensive. I wonder if the author is using it purposely to express anger towards men and possibly a bit of misandry on her part. Regardless, I feel it would be more accurate and less offensive to simply say unattractive rather than the choice she used. When I look at a woman and simply conclude I do not find her attractive physically, at the time I am more likely to thinking more of whether I would want to kiss or hug her, rather than immediately or automatically thinking of whether I would be interested in sex with her. When I first see a woman's photos, whether in a dating profile or some other format, or for that matter encounter her in public, I often do form a quick impression of them either looking attractive or not, but I don't think I change my behavior towards them very much based on that assessment, at least not when I encounter them in person. I still try to see the humanity in everyone, male or female, and treat them with kindness.
TomMcGiverin
Level 8
Apr 8, 2021
1
I think the author used the term because it is in the vernacular of most younger people. I agree it is a vulgar and common term. I also agree the author may have some anger issues, however I think if you really listen to women we ALL have some anger issues. Likely all people do, but the current climate is skewed to white males, and those of us not white and male are kinda tired of the short end of the stick.
@HippieChick58 Agreed. I think most of us, male and female, that do not qualify as above average looking, have some anger at how we are treated in our superficial Kardashian society. The fact that I am much older than the author of the article is probably another reason why she chose that word rather than unattractive. When it comes to sex and attraction, I often feel like I am from another planet compared to younger folks today, esp. with their trend towards beginning the dating process with a "sex interview" in which they use that to decide whether to bother going on with the rest of the dating and discovery process, rather than the other way around, as I have always been taught to conduct it.
In my experience, this is pretty common among both men and women. Perhaps more commonly with narcissists, who always see themselves better than they are anyway?
A couple of decades ago I was very ill and, between stress, meds, and immobility, became very heavy. It was stunning how many people treated me as if I was invisible - even those I had known before I became ill. It's an ugly reality about people. On the plus side, I have a couple of close friends who saw me even when I was invisible, and they'll always be very precious to me.
Lauren
Level 8
Apr 8, 2021
5
The friends that accept and support you no matter what are truly worth their weight in gold. That's why I have done my best to hold onto them and have several that I have known for 30 years or more.
@TomMcGiverin 30 years speaks well of them, and you. They really are worth the effort to keep in our lives, even with relocations, busy lives, and poor communicators.
@Lauren Fortunately, only one of them relocated, but, even with him, we stay in touch regularly and I visit him at least a few times a year, since he only lives a few hours away.
Not just narcissists but also some who have a low self-esteem. I know of women/men who were plain looking but hung around people that were even plainer. It helped to make them stand out. It also works with having a flaw. Being with another with a worse flaw can give one more a sense of normalcy (if that makes sense). Funny, but two of the happiest couple I know here is a guy who is thin and very active (he has walked the Appalachian Trail, works out in the gym and has lots of energy. His wife is overweight, and won't walk one block to the library and always drives. She spends hours with her bridge club.
I married a man who was so good looking women would stop their cars to look at him. Sure, he was great in bed but that was all he had going for him So I learned the hard way how unimportant looks are. Since then, men become better looking to me the more I like them and I like them on the basis of how they use their brain.
Whether men find me desireable or not makes zero difference to me, as I alone define myself. The stigma definitely exists but I won't participate in it.
LovinLarge
Level 8
Apr 8, 2021
7
Yeah, you say that now but when it comes time for me to cook breakfast and you don't want bacon n eggs n tomato will sautéed cerveaux suffice?
@waitingforgodo If it weren't for internet dictionaries, I would never have any idea what you were talking about. Otherwise, I rarely have to look anything up. Thankfully, I am the lifelong learner type. Maybe one day you'll enter a bio so we can get to know you better?
@LovinLarge yeah if it weren't for words I'd be lost in opsimath. I distinctly recall posting my co-ordinates when our friend and colleague here mentioned being north of 250 and it was only later that I realised it wasn't GPS info, ha ha ha.
"... New York Times crossword ..."
It's enough to make one a cross cruciverbalist.
waitingforgodo
Level 8
Apr 8, 2021
3
For the umpteenth time, I will say it again, it goes both ways. Even tho it was a few decades ago, I still keenly remember both in the dating game and from people of both genders in general, how much better I was treated and regarded when I was much younger and had both a full head of hair and an athletic body. I no longer have an athletic body this time around in the dating game, but my body weight is still average, but apparently I don't have the looks required or demanded by women in the top 50% of the dating pool I use in my dating site, because I seldom get replies from women in that segment of the dating pool and also of the twelve Likes that were sent to me since I became active again in the last few months with the site, only two of those women were average looking, the rest were below average looking and none of them were above average-looking.
The assertion below by Detritus appears to be right on the mark about the top 50% of women in looks only being interested in guys who were in the top 20% for looks and money.
TomMcGiverin
Level 8
Apr 7, 2021
1
It is not something new to find that most men are assholes, they have them also. Why spend time with these jerks? I know many good men who cannot find a woman who will give them the time of day. I guess one has to work with those who they are around. For me personally I do not look at ones looks, they change, I wonder what is in their head, if they are interesting then their beauty increases.
dalefvictor
Level 8
Apr 7, 2021
9
All women have a beauty of their own
bobwjr
Level 10
Apr 7, 2021
5
You silver tongued devil!
@HippieChick58 Just me and how I feel a good woman completes a man
www.http//
@HippieChick58 that's bob singing after you.
@waitingforgodo She lives too far away
@waitingforgodo But it would be nice
@HippieChick58 Would be nice if we were closer
@bobwjr You're in Lewes, and the Lewes I am familiar with is Delaware. I'm smack dab in the middle of the US in Omaha, NE. I'm approximately 1300 miles from Lewes, DE. I've lived in Virginia, Maryland, and Massachusetts, I love the East Coast, but not to live there again. My family is the glue that keeps me here. So many times distance is a killer of possible relationships. We will just have to admire each other from a distance.
@HippieChick58 Familiar with where you are
It is true that some people both men and women have standards for others that are far above their own attractiveness. I'm fortunate to never have been interested in anyone with that kind of a personality.
I have an acquaintance that's on his third divorce.He was so proud the last one was 25 years younger than him.An old girlfriend has been contacting him and he commented the other day that he just realized that she's 70 now and he's not sure he wants to date someone who's 70 . He's 80 and quite a bit overweight! He also publicly admit s to ED. He treats me nicely but I'm pretty sure it's mainly because I have a 34-year-old girlfriend and he thinks if he can be around me he can be around her. Sometimes it irritates me and sometimes I think it's just funny and sad.
Lorajay
Level 9
Apr 7, 2021
7
Your comment "It is true that some people both men and women have standards for others that are far above their own attractiveness".
This is true!
I recall an old saying “never judge a book by its cover”. Then again, if all a guy cares about is the eye candy karma is likely to take care of the situation. And, as has been noted, it works both ways. One YouTube channel talked of the top 50% of women only date the top 20% of (rich, beautiful, etc) men. The implications for the future of our country are interesting to contemplate. Also somewhat frightening.
Detritus
Level 7
Apr 7, 2021
4
I'm not sure if it's about being shallow, if liking someone and being turned on by them are two different things. I suspect that what we find sexually attractive is conditioned, after all, some people are sexually aroused by feet, hands, shoes etc. Current research already indicates that men are attracted to women with particular levels of adipose tissue, purportedly because that is a possible visual indicator of fertility. Not liking someone or discriminating against them because of their appearance is a different animal.
Cyklone
Level 7
Apr 7, 2021
5
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