This 10 year old video from an atheist channel (Qualia Soup) which I never paid any attention to, and which hasn't even been active in 8 years, does the best job of parsing the atheist vs agnostic issue that I've heard. Yeah!!! What he said!!!
Good video. Why people don’t understand that the term agnostic can apply to either atheist or theist, is beyond me.
In my opinion, we’re all agnostic to supernatural dictatorships.
Anyone claiming otherwise is either a fool, or a liar.
Yes. And though the video does a good job of giving insight into why theists make such assertions, absent is mention of why some non-theists do the same. Personally, I feel they do so for one of two reasons. In one camp you have those who, while rejecting theism, wish to believe in other supernatural phenomena which has not been proved. They feel the need to lay claim to how open minded they are in order to justify their beliefs. In the other camp are those so in love with the idea that their "middle way" is superior to other views, that they cling to a narrow interpretation of the word Agnostic in order maintain their perception of themselves as having the most rational viewpoint of all.
I don't think we're born with ANYTHING, including a belief in God. But once we're old enough, it's perfectly understandable to look for answers.
There's a fork in the road: IS there an answer or not? If your answer is 'yes,' you are either a theist or an atheist.
If your answer is 'no,' you are agnostic.
Case closed.
As a Mid-wife, and YES I am a Male person btw, I have helped deliver 165 babies into this world and ALL that I have ever noticed is that,
A) the first instinct of most babies is find the comfort from the closeness to the mother,
B) to find the nourishment needed from the breasts of the mother, and,
C) the replacement of warmth and closeness they experienced whilst still in the womb.
NEVER once have i witnessed ANY new-born child go almost immediately into a praying position, an angry attitude YES, but a position resembling prayer or worship NEVER.
We are BORN with the body which will grow with us, become us and be US, we are also born with an almost blank mind that develops as we grow is quite, and imo sadly, open to external influences whether they helpful or not, can be easily indoctrinated, etc, etc, and what the end results are truly DEPENDS on the environment in which we grow.
@Triphid It's NORMAL when we get old enough to wonder about the world around us and to ask questions.
Imagine for a moment if the people we ask said, 'I don't know?'
SOME no doubt do. Most don't.
The ones who don't? We believe them, of course.
The ones who do? I don't know. It sure didn't happen to me. But would that be the end of it? I sincerely doubt it.
@Storm1752 Just HOW OLD is OLD enough?
And, conversely, How old is old enough to STOP asking questions and learning?
Speaking purely from a personal point here, I started, according to what my father always told me, " It was a toss-up as when I started asking questions or was merely talking as a child."
i'm now 67 years old and still ask questions, seek out more and more knowledge justv as I taught my daughter to do right from when she first learned to speak.
Knowledge IS the lightest of ALL burdens to carry around, it weighs very little, costs very little to access and gain, remains with you until the day you die and can be passed on from one to another as easily as saying Hello.
@Triphid Religion is a result of a very natural, normal, inevitable question: who am I? It's not unnatural for you, me, everybody, to INSIST on an answer. After all, there MUST be an answer, right?
I believe it's only later in life we resign ourselves, like the knights of the round table looking for the holy grail, to the inescapable conclusion there may BE no Grail.
On the other hand, maybe there is. Like them, we'll never know.
Or...maybe we will. We don't know that either.
The bottom line is....there is no bottom line, and to me that's the toughest realization of all.
That's why so many people like us succumb to atheism, because the need to KNOW is so strong, even if it's to know...well, NOTHING is the "answer.'
@Storm1752 Well, imo, given that the MYTH of the Holy Grail/Jesus. the Crucifixion/Resurrection, etc, etc, has NO undeniable, irrefutable, Empirically Tried, Tested and PROVEN Evidence to support what-so-ever then, imo, the answer is already there in front of anyone and plain to see IF one choose to look with an OPEN mind.
There is NOTHING normal nor natural regarding Religion since Religion is just a conjecture, a guess/ hypothesis created to explain away the events, etc, occurring in a truly Natural World that that once primitive and undeveloped minds of Humans could not yet comprehend.
For example, 74 B.C.E. the mountain near Pompeii erupts, the inhabitants have NO knowledge of things we call Volcanoes so they simply believe that their Roman God, Vulcan ( from which we have now derived the word Volcano comes btw, is angry with them and has caused fire, etc, to rain down upon them in his anger.
We now KNOW that Volcanoes erupt BECAUSE of the build up of pressure in the Magma Chambers beneath them causes them to erupt, logic/understanding and sciences have taught us that to be a FACT and above mere superstitions.
Myths are born from Legends, Legends are born from a very small iota of a tale told around a fire-side that over time becomes exaggerated and embellished and so on and so forth UNTIL it becomes believable ( ?) to those who choose to believe in it without questioning.
Hence and therefore Religions and Religious Beliefs are born.
@Triphid Of course I agree. BUT the 'original sin' might be to seek the basic knowledge of existence in the first place! There being no solution, no answer, it MUST drive men mad; that is, into the bosom of the false answer of religion.
Whether religion or the anti-religion of atheism, there are no answers. Nothing to talk about.
@Storm1752 " For every question there IS an answer, for every answer there is a question." -William Anthony, 1996.
Just as, " For every problem there is a solution and for every solution there must be a problem." -William Anthony 1996.
There ARE always answers, all one needs to do is to search and seek them.
@Triphid That's just it: to THIS question there are only more questions, which drive men insane/into acceptance of the false answer of religion and the search for the Holy Grail.
The human mind is not programmed to face an insurmountable mountain, an unanswerable question...garbage in, garbage out....does not compute...result: religion.
In other words, ask an unanswerable question BUT DEMAND AN ANSWER ANYWAY? You get religion.
@Storm1752 We get to programme, so to speak, our own minds IF we so wish to do so or are permitted by others to do so.
WE CAN choose/elect whether or NOT others programme us or we do it for our selves, THAT, my Friend, is having both Free-will and Freedom of Choice imo.
Whether or NOT one chooses/elects to have and retain both Free-Will and Freedom of Choice is solely up to them and them alone.
@Storm1752 The "unknowable" can NOT be established as being Facts for the simple reason that the 'unknowable' has no Empirically Tried , Tested and Proven Positive evidence to support.
Ergo, RELIGION is nothing more than a mere conjecture, as baseless and completely unsupported claim at best.
@Storm1752 Theism both relies and depends completely upon Conjecture, Supposition and Assumption combined with FAITH, often BLIND and Unquestioning Faith.
Whereas, in the MAJORITY of cases, Atheism and Atheists use Logic, Reasoning, Tried and Tested PROVEN Evidences, Research and Researching, etc, etc, THEN go about READING through EVERYTHING placed before them down to the minutest of details, mentally dissect and digest it ALL, weigh up the Pros and the Cons BEFORE forming their OWN conclusions.
@Triphid It's my opinion both theism and atheism are based on inductive fallacies, wherein the conclusion is determined, then the 'facts' are conveniently arranged to conform to that result.
There is NO way to prove or disprove the existence of 'god' unless you first establish what 'god' is; since a given definition of 'god' is purely arbitrary, and in fact is pure conjecture, any conclusion based on any given definition is in itself purely arbitrary.
Therefore, the existence or non-existence of 'god' cannot be proven or disproven because a set, fixed, and verifiable definition cannot be established and agreed upon. The scientific method is thus not applicable.
This is why I aver agnosticism is the only rational position.
This could be why the Admin chose agnostic.com over atheist.com.
Definitely the "safer" choice, and who could lay blame with all of the misunderstanding which exists.
Heaven forfend misunderstanding.
This has been most helpful to me personally. Why does anyone feel that it has been hidden for 10 years?. Please help to spread it
Yes, that is a very good summary of what I have been saying for years.
Qualia Soup’s brother, Theramin Trees, is also a good YouTuber on the topic of religious belief..
@p-nullifidian Thanks for that tip.
@p-nullifidian Yes. My familiarity with the Theramin Trees channel and the mention that Qualia Soup is his brother on a recent joint video, is what made me give the channel a closer look.
@Rossy92 it’s been a few years, but as I recall, Theramin Trees (perhaps both?) were ‘recovering’ Jehovahs Witnesses.
@p-nullifidian If so, then they deserve extra commendation for making content of general interest to all non-believers, unlike some channels which are of limited interest to myself, who doesn't have a JW background. Can't help wondering if they're the same person though?
@Rossy92 They do sound much alike, but according to RationalWiki, they're brothers.
[rationalwiki.org]