I politely disagree. Yes, many of us do end up in the hospital because of ignorant or even stupid mistakes but we often do no cause the problem to get worse and affect others. The spread is a direct result of millions willingly not getting vaccinated. This allows the virus to constantly mutate. When the stupid people finally realize their blunder and end up in hospitals it overwhelms the system and the healthcare infrastructures. It is a form of enabling due to pity. When I found out a former partner was alcoholic I joined Al Anon and learned about how enabling actually led to being blamed and making the disease even worse.

@JackPedigo I don’t lack understanding of the situation. I just don’t believe it is not a judgement anyone in the healthcare profession would be likely to want to make to deny treatment …It goes against the Hippocratic oath for one thing. I respectfully disagree that it can be compared to the enabling situation you describe, it’s nothing to do with pity which you are confusing with compassion…not at all the same thing.

@Marionville Thank you for giving me something to think about. I did look for the difference between pity and compassion and found: [differencebetween.net] Seems they are very similar. Pity is about duty and compassion about love. So what if you don't know the person you are giving compassion to? Sounds like the Hippocratic oath is more about duty than love. How about compassion for those that often have real emergencies (heart attacks, diseases like cancer or accidents). They are often found wanting because there is no room.

No, most healthcare professionals want (instead of being forced to because of some oath) to make a judgement on who to treat and who not to and it happens all the time. In a piece, in the Seattle Times, this morning I read about the homeless situation in Seattle. This has led to an increase in drugs and violence especially along a certain corridor in the downtown area. Some people (often wealthy) living in high rise condos are becoming afraid and wanting to move out. But many say they have become inured of the situation and very cautious. Once when someone was lying in the street they would stop to check on them but now they simply walk past. I don't think most understand the true nature of this crises. How the hospitals are overflowing with the sick and dying. How people , through their own inaction's, are creating a deadly situation for others. I try to imagine that and watch videos (one I recently posted). Instead of blaming the healthcare workers we need to understand the situation and look to send a loud message to those that are too cavalier in this horrible situation.

@JackPedigo The healthcare professionals I know here in the U.K. certainly do not wish it make a judgement on who to treat …I think the difference between our universal healthcare system and your privatised, for profit one is showing quite starkly. The NHS belongs to all the people of the U.K. and whether or not their illness or injury has been largely self inflicted, it makes no difference at all to their entitlement to treatment…”free at the point of delivery”. That applies to the vaccinated and unvaccinated equally. Yes, our hospitals are also being filled up by covid patients who haven’t been vaccinated, but I have never heard it suggested that they shouldn’t be treated, that to most of us would be completely unthinkable. As for compassion v pity v duty…perhaps we’re splitting hairs…but I believe most in the medical profession know where their duty lies and that is to treat all patients equally with skill and compassion, pity really doesn’t even come into it!

@Marionville Of course different countries different attitudes but even you healthcare system is not free. Someone has to pay for it and it is the taxpayers. You do pay more taxes than we do so it is another reason our system is so shaky. Still, given equal circumstances, I'll bet there will be equal feelings about what one should or should not do. Burn out is universal.

@JackPedigo I never suggested it was free..of course we pay for it in taxes called National Insurance which is deducted at source from our earnings, it’s free to all at the point of need…that was the point I was making When all people of working age have paid into the system it’s only reasonable for them to expect to access medical treatment when they require it, without any judgement or apportioning of blame.

If compassion rules than often the deserving are left out. It has become a war and we need to give more care to the people on our side and less on the side of the enemy (people who are accomplices of the virus enemy). We need to expand our compassion to future generations and the survival of our species.

My late partner asked her 2nd grade class what is more important people or dirt? Let me add another piece to that: what is more important compassion or avoiding human extinction? With 7.5 Billion of us and counting that is where we are heading and we are taking thousands of non-human species with us. If religion had the high ground on morality we are all doomed.

I so agree

As one of those cops you mentioned (corrections officer)... yep. When a life is in danger, be it from a medical emergency, an assault, suicide attempt, whatever, you don't have the luxury of asking yourself what kind of person this is. You just do your job and save everyone. Dislike them before and after, but at crunch time, it's just another human being.

@Paul4747 Worked medical in corrections, been there

@Seacreatureluv welcome to the site .
If u click on my profile and scroll down , u will see the tab “ block user “. Click on it and u ll never have to read my 3d grade ways of typing . I hope that helps dude

severe but I totally am there too

There's a big difference between vices that slowly harm your body that cause strain on the healthcare system and taking the side of the enemy every step of the way by fighting against social distancing / lock downs, then masks, now vaccines and then asking for our help.

@JeffMurray there is?

@FrayedBear To me there is. I explained the difference. If you don't see it that way, that's fine.
To me it's the difference between being at war with another country and an innocent civilian getting shot in the crossfire and needing assistance and someone who was helping the enemy getting injured while helping them and then asking for assistance. Those are the same to you?

@FrayedBear There is for everyone who is willing to see situations from a reason approach instead of an emotional one.

@JeffMurray Depends on who started the war & why. Furthermore I'm not in the medical field probably because I haven't got the generosity of spirit to accept other's stupidity.

@FrayedBear Why does that matter? Even if your side started the war, and for bad reasons, if you defect (understandably) why would you ask your new enemy for help? And if you did, why would you expect they'd help you or be happy about helping you?

@JeffMurray if all the ifs & ands were pots and pans there would be no need for tinkers.
Sadly in this throwaway age the tinkers have been put on the scrapheap.

@FrayedBear I don't know what you're trying to say with that.

@JeffMurray Actually, morally it's the equivalent as far as I can see. The only difference is the direct level of causation. Knowing with a degree of certainty what the risks are, and the immediacy of the consequences, versus a low degree of certainty and a long-term time frame for causation, makes it easier to accept someone who simply lives an unhealthy lifestyle. And isn't it accepted that second-hand smoke is just about as dangerous, long-term, as walking around without a mask on if you're asymptomatic right now?

@Paul4747 No, it's not. First, the slow nature of the healthcare problems associated with other vices allows systems to provide care to them without being overwhelmed. There's no sudden massive influx of lung cancer patients that are stressing the system to the breaking point. Second, those vices are not contagious. Third, we can debate whether or not addiction plays into the problems of obesity and smoking, but I'm pretty sure no one is addicted to willfully refusing a vaccine during a global pandemic. Finally, even if we agree that ingesting second-hand smoke is just as dangerous, it still wouldn't result in the issues detailed above. There's no sudden, exponential growth of people needing hospital beds because of second-hand smoke.

We do?

Frankly, I try not to hope for anyone to die. Even people like Tucker Carlson or Ted Cruz. I would rather they just fade away.

@Paul4747 Are you part of 'we'? There are several healthcare workers that vent here regularly.
And what you're describing is magical nonsense. The only way the higher percentage of anti-vaxxers the get covid and need hospitalization wouldn't show up on our doorstep is if they died at home. There's no scenario where the ones that need our help don't get it and just "fade away" without it being a result of them dying.

@JeffMurray I'm part of "we" the participants on the forum. You didn't specify which "we" you were referring to.

And while it is indeed wishful thinking to hope that nobody would have to die from a preventable illness, that's the word I used; "hope". Nothing more than that. If there are health care workers somewhere "hoping" for people to die so they won't have to go to all the trouble of treating them, I hope I don't fall into their hands.

@Paul4747 The OP was about healthcare workers showing compassion to anti-vaxxers. The 'we' in my reply was obviously referring to them, not a random group of individuals that happen to not believe in god.
As for the second part, you have it all wrong. It has nothing to do with not wanting to treat them. It has to do with shortages of everything, staff, supplies, beds, equipment, etc. because of them that's causing harm to all of the other people that are doing their best to help us. If they want to take the side of the enemy and risk being one of the seriously ill, it would be nice if they actually assumed that risk on their own instead of burdening everyone else with that risk that didn't want to take it. And no where did I say we treat them any differently once they do arrive; that's not part of who most of us (<- HEALTHCARE WORKERS) are. That's why I used the word "hope". Nothing more than that.