none of the examples have the capacity to reproduce one in their current form one of the hallmarks of life, they are in fact only reproductions until they can survive on their own. and functional activity

@glennlab Go back to biology class. Human fertilized eggs reproduce at a fantastic rate. It is called mitosis. Look it up.

The "survive on their own argument is specious at best. A 1 month old baby cannot survive on its own.

@Alienbeing cell division in a species is not reproduction, you need to go back to biology class, you failed the definition of terms. reproduction involves the wholesale replication of the species not individual cells dividing. By your definition infanticide would be legal until around the age of 2.

@glennlab You are absolutly WRONG!

Cell division IS reproduction. It is not generation reproduction, but it IS reproduction. Nothing that is not alive reproduces cells. Can you think of anything not alive that reproduces cells? Note in the definition it clearly distinguishes between animals & plants and inorganic matter.

Your defense is very faulty.

Your last sentnce makes no sense, so I can't reply to it.

@Alienbeing You are wrong and split hairs to make your argument, you would have fail HS biology with your answers.

@glennlab Recognizing that something MUST be living to reproduce cells is FAR from splitting hairs.

Pityful you cannot admit error. I DARE you to prove me wrong. When you can't I know you still won't apologize.

@Alienbeing I won't get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man, check you 10th grade biology textbook. Since you and I cannot even agree on a definition of terms, and yours go against the defined science, this discussion is over.

@glennlab You feeble attempt at buzz phrases will not change the FACT the definition of life is what it is. You are not entitled to your own definitions. The defition I supplied does not need agreement. It is easy to read. Do you have a different definition? NO you don't.

Another simple fact is you didn't even attempt to prove me wrong because you cannot. Last, your inability to admit error is childish.

I don't draw a line, the decision to have an abortion is totally between a woman and her doctor, the only other people that should factor into her decision are those she chooses to include. There are a multitude of articles explaining the horrors a woman must go through with a late term abortion, but you are talking about less than 6000 a year or about one and a half months of gun deaths.

@glennlab So you are on board with killing healthy 8.5 month old fetuses, rather than inducing labor and putting the baby up for adoption?

@BD66 That is a bullshit hypothetical that has no basis in fact, nearly every late term abortion is performed due to the non viability of the fetus, are you willing to personally put up the millions of dollars that child might require just to stay alive for a few years hooked up to countless medical devices? Are you willing to sit and console the grieving mother for the years of pain she will go through because you forced her to give birth to a non viable child? Unless you are, you should have no say. Find ONE real example of your hypothetical situation.

@glennlab I said healthy 8.5 month old fetuses. If the child has a serious medical condition that will lead to months or years of misery for the child and the family, I'm 100% in agreement with you. There are some cases that are more difficult to decide:

Downs syndrome
Dwarfism
Cystic Fybrosis

Should the decision in those cases be 100% with the mother, or do you believe legislatures should set guidelines?

There appear to be thousands of late-term abortions per year.

[lozierinstitute.org]

I'm not aware of a breakdown of the reasons behind the late-term abortions. Let me know if you have any more specific data.

@BD66 The latest year data for 3rd trimester abortions is 2019 and there were less than 6000, less than 1 % of all abortions.

“Viability is reached when, in the judgment of the attending physician on the particular facts of the case before him, there is a reasonable likelihood of the fetus’ sustained survival outside the womb, with or without artificial support. Because this point may differ with each pregnancy, neither the legislature nor the courts may proclaim one of the elements entering into the ascertainment of viability – be it weeks of gestation or fetal weight or any other single factor – as the determinant of when the State has a compelling interest in the life or health of the fetus.” Colautti v. Franklin (1979)
[guttmacher.org]
[kff.org]

@BD66 There were over 3.16 million births in 2020. I don't know of any cases that fit you example, the reason I asked if you could find one.

@glennlab It appears that late-term abortions for "personal reasons" are legal in nine states and in DC, but they are rare:

[vox.com]

@glennlab Here's an example of the abortion of a healthy fetus at 7 months:

That was true for Beth Vial, a college student from Portland, Ore., who didn't learn she was pregnant until she was about 26 weeks along, in the summer of 2017. "I just [burst] out crying. I didn't believe them because I was told that wasn't a possibility for me," she said.

Vial has some health issues — including a condition that disrupts her menstrual cycles — which can make conception unlikely and a pregnancy harder to diagnose. Doctors in Portland told her she was too far along for an abortion there.

Vial was 22 at the time. She had recently ended her relationship and said she was sure she did not want to continue the pregnancy.

"I was already having a tough time in my life in a lot of other ways and it just felt like one more thing I really couldn't bear, or provide for, and I was panicked, I guess," Vial said.

Vial found a clinic in New Mexico that told her they would end her pregnancy up until 28 weeks — the beginning of the third trimester.

She scrambled, with the help of family, friends and a nonprofit that helps women pay for abortions, to pull together the fee of more than $10,000.

"[There were] a lot of people telling me how they felt about my situation without me asking — friends, family, strangers," Vial said. "I mean, you tell someone that you're seven months pregnant and having an abortion, they've got some things to say."

[npr.org]

@BD66 Medical viability must be determined in any 2nd or 3rd trimester abortion. So from around 16 weeks. The SC only granted first trimester abortions without restriction, every state has the right to regulate abortions after than and some do.

And yes all late term abortions must be signed off as either a risk to the mother's health or non viability, many states simply don't allow them, so it entails travel to a state that does. There are only 4 doctors currently performing them

@glennlab 9 states allow late term abortions, and some states allow late term abortions for "personal reasons" that have nothing to do with the health of the mother or the child. Click the NPR story above. At the bottom they discuss the abortion of a healthy 7 month old fetus for "personal reasons"

@BD66 That was a second trimester abortion and she almost couldn't get it.
While it may be 9 states, there are only 4 doctors nationwide, 7 months is a far cry from your 8.5 month old, find me one of those.

@glennlab 28 weeks is third trimester.

@glennlab If the pro-abortion crowd was smart, they could close the "personal reasons" loophole which, if you are correct, only applies to 4 doctors in the USA. Once that was closed, the pro-life crowd would not have much of an argument to make.