The problem here is that guns are not a "lib" thing. They are heavily a Republican thing.

@DenoPenno Libs (short for liberals) are afraid to carry. They got the mistaken notion that they are somehow "teaching" us how to win without becoming like Cons. We libs need to drop this cowardice, or superiority complex, or educated lecture and get real. Christians will only stop their abuse when the rest of us make them afraid. Very afraid.

@rainmanjr I do agree with some of that. Non-violence is only a tactic, not a thing to be worshipped or treated as sacred. Since the Left gave up violence as a political tactic, beginning in the late 70s or early 80s, most on the left, esp. liberals who are comfortably middle or upper middle class, have thought or acted like non-violence is the only way to go. preferring to romanticize the non-violence of the civil rights movement and the anti-Vietnam war movement. But this is no longer the 60s. Our media, unlike then, are all owned by billionaires, and they do not provide any fair or balanced coverage of struggles on the left against corporate rule or the right. Also, people no longer have the capacity for outrage like they did in the 60s. Finally, our cops and fed government, are clearly against us as well, and instead sympathize way more with the right wing fascists and militia groups. We are in for a civil war and people on the left will need to arm and protect themselves, because the cops won't do it for them and they will be hunted down by the fascists on the right if those on the left are openly dissenters from the right wing program. That is, if they aren't already put in camps.

@rainmanjr I agree with you that bullies and fascists only respond to strong aggression being mounted against them. They only understand power. This is not like some program to change school bullies by reasoning with them and helping them feel more secure or accepted. It's more like stopping power-mad, aggressive people who enjoy bullying others and dominating them. They are beyond any kind of national therapy or reconciliation program of teaching them to accept others who are different from them.

@TomMcGiverin Thank you. All points are very well stated and demonstrable. Sad we should have to be brought down to this level but so called "reality" has always been sad.

@rainmanjr Bringing superior intellect, superior knowledge or morality and non-violence to a gun fight doesn't usually end well. Take a look at what happened to the pacifist White Rose Society in Hitler's Germany. They were all hanged...

@TomMcGiverin You let Historians and Philosophers examine those aspects afterward (assuming one has won). These things are not invalid but, as Psalms and The Turtles(?) stated, everything has a time. The winner determines how valid it was so that's why it helps to be correct about the tipping point.

@rainmanjr Actually, I think you are referring to the folk rock band The Byrds, who had a hit song based on the words of Ecclesiastes, not Psalms, called "Turn, Turn, Turn"... Showing my Boomer age here.

@TomMcGiverin I thought Turtles was wrong but I'm high and figured the reader would know the reference. Thanks.

@rainmanjr No worries, high or not, we all make mistakes in attribution on the net, so no one should get excited about it.

@OldMetalHead mainly religion but they use the guns to try and show strength and intimidation.

@TomMcGiverin shit just talking about them makes them get off, lol. I listen to them at work talking about guns like their the greatest things ever invented.

@GrooshStar Overgrown boys with their toys..

@OldMetalHead Both.

Ah yes, Republican Jesus...

@snytiger6 Yup, it covers just about all the Repub gospel, with all the cruelty, heartlessness, and selfishness.