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10 3

Is there no positive rally point for atheists?

One thing I have found is that atheists need to talk about something other than religion or the lack there of. In other words, it is not that I am against God or Gods, but that I just don't acknowledge them. They don't exist, so there is nothing to talk about.Anyone else feel this? Is there are replacement?

onedayatatime 6 May 3
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In skiing there is alpine, downhill, cross-country, freestyle, snowboarding, off-piste, telemark, adaptive, etc., Is there a replacement for "not skiing"? There is not really a replacement of a thing for not doing the thing.

What atheists tend to rally around is the adversity they face such as laws prohibiting them from office or theist agendas driving religious law or rules into their lives. Theists who fight for anti-abortion laws because they have an old book that says to is a real problem, not made up. When religion is just an after-thought in government, you won't hear much about atheism anymore.

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That's just as dumb as a person coming to your door telling Yahweh is going to kill you and then walking off without letting you speak. It's not about needing to talk, it's about needing to educate. Free speech.

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There are other things to talk about but they would be of a more general secular humanistic nature. Atheism is far too limited a basis for community / common cause.

Atheism is, ironically, no more useful a concept than aphilatelism (one who does not collect stamps) except that if stamp collecting was highly influential and ubiquitous, and collectors suddenly started trying to change laws to favor themselves, force people to join their clubs or be ostracized, and condemned all non-collectors to be confined for eternity in a celestial dead-letter office, then suddenly the concept of aphilatelism would become relevant as a means of self-identity for those separating from philately or opposed to its social harms. There are no people identifying as aphilatelists precisely because philatelists mind their own business and respect the right of others to be indifferent to their hobby. If theists would do the same with their hobby, atheism would vanish in a heartbeat as a relevant or useful concept.

If you don't believe in any form of theism then you're an atheist and that will always be true in a technical, philosophical sense. But if you're indifferent to theism then atheism has almost no utility for you and it's arguably more useful in most contexts to identify as a secular humanist or whatever represents, for you, the causes and ideals that you want to promote.

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As long as the believers continue to force their influence on how we ALL live, there will always be a reason to talk about religion and it's dangers.
There is plenty to talk about, and many of us feel the need to do so.
We also talk about other things, but expecting no talk of religion is unrealistic.

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Life, The Universe, and everything in it.

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Oh my. Do realize you just created the kind of post you do not like?
I personally have not concluded there is no creator out there just that religion is not of divine origin so I continue to seek answers. In my opinion this site is available for us to explore ideas/beliefs/possibilities outside of religion (rituals) and even those within. Being agnostic to me means I do not know why we are here or how we got here and as for me, I love to hear what everyone has been taught and try out some practices like Yoga for example. Since religion IS a fundamental aspect of most cultures I personally like to know what messages people were taught, it helps me relate to them better. Some of us are here to explore because we have not determined a yay or nay about a creator and simply like to know what has been taught throughout history with an open mind.
So, basically, we all have to make this experience our own. There are plenty of topics and groups that do not explore religious beliefs.

I see and hear this a lot from folks.
"I personally have not concluded there is no creator out there just that religion is not of divine origin so I continue to seek answers."
This equates Creator to Deity
Yet it utterly fails to define what the heck that creator is.

If a human creates a painting, they are the creator of it.
They are not defined by their work, you do not call them "Creator", as if that has some special meaning.
if I ask "How did this come to be", someone would respond "so and so painted it"

BUT with God, people use a differing standard. They ASSUME creation, which then requires a Creator, and since the Creation (all that ever is or was) is so immense, it therefore MUST be God.

But God is never defined.

WTF is God?

@Davesnothere See that is where I disagree with most others. Creator should NOT equate deity. I absolutely agree with your definition of creator so if one were to ask me what I personally thought a creator looked like it would be more like a mad scientist that stumbled onto the creation of life but not perfect or all knowing, not even necessarily interested in the created and possibly even hostile towards us much like an artist that discards their painting. Not everyone believes a creator means deity or something worth worshiping and equating creator with deity (all knowing, total power...) IS the mistake. I could definitely see us creating a new type of human in a petri dish and sending them to Mars which would make us their creators so that is the definition I play around with. I think each of us has our own unique belief system so asking someone what creator means to them would probably help clarify where the individual is coming from since I did not equate creator with deity yet you assumed I had.

@CreativelyMe " I absolutely agree with your definition of creator"
Odd, I did not give one, nor do I have one.

I did not assume that, it is implied in your first post by the use of that term "Creator", long adopted by the Christians as just another term for God. "I personally have not concluded there is no creator out there just that religion is not of divine origin"

This implies a lot more than some Alien geneticaly engineering Humans, for which there is also zero evidence.

What I find far more facinating is why you assume the natural world "Created" to begin with, like a painting, an artificial constuct created by something else.

@Davesnothere I do not assume it was created and my words should make that pretty evident. I assume it is a distinct possibility that we were created, how is that an assumption?. I have made no assumptions or conclusions and if you reread your comments you did define creator as a painter. I was not referring to an ultimate creator only the definition YOU used for creator.

@Davesnothere Using the term "creator" should not equate my belief with Christians simply because it is a term THEY use to equate GOD with. Should I also avoid words like light because Christians equate it to Christ? So they coined the term and since I used it then I meant God because of it? That is rather rigid and narrow minded thinking in my opinion. Creator means to bring something new into existence and to assume it means more based solely on who used it most is absolutely ridiculous. My words make it very clear I was not speaking of the Christian God so please do not put your assumptions onto me. I use whatever words I choose to whether or not Christians use them to mean something different than I do.

@clarkems I like what you shared. I see no reason not to go to a church. I have attended all types of different religious events and see no reason not to offer support for the aspects I do like and question the teachings I disagree with. More people are open to my disbelief in religion once they realize that I explore them all without judgment against the people. My mother once asked me why I hate Mormons and I told her I don't I hate organized religion not the individuals that have been deceived by it. I believe that a lot of the practices churches initiate should be adopted by non-believing humans, just not enforced at the threat of being exiled from our communities. There are a lot of really good teachings, philosophies and practices that I have learned from going to other peoples churches and how better to get people to accept our ideas than to accept theirs?

@clarkems "When I think of a creator it is an entity we cannot understand that lives across multiple times and dimensions, playing with new dimensions and twirling black holes into existence like a kid playing in the mud."
But why would you give that any more credability than Moby Dick or the Easter Bunny? It is certainly more fantastic.

@clarkems, @CreativelyMe You cannot escape the overarching cultural motif. If you use the term Creator in a Judeo Christian society it will carry those connotatons whether you wanted that or not. You would have to be very specific about it, and then the term would not have the same usefulness.

"So they coined the term and since I used it then I meant God because of it?"
It is a cultural notion, maybe in a few hundred years you could, but there are many words you cannot use without baggage. The N word comes to mind, as do ALL the terms annexed by religion Faith, Spirit, God, Creator and so forth, they have baggage. Just because YOu do not intend that baggage does not make it simply vanish.

" Creator means to bring something new into existence and to assume it means more based solely on who used it"
I did not base it on WHO used the term
I based it on HOW you used it
"I personally have not concluded there is no creator out there just that religion is not of divine origin so I continue to seek answers."
This implies there might be some Creator out there
Which implies that reality is artificial, a Creation by some unknown entity.

To me, this is not anything but what I call entrenched thinking. Something I struggled with for years, and something I see people struggle with when exiting religion, often for many years because we become acustomed to using Religious language with all that baggage without thinking about what it infers or implies.
I think it makes it much harder when talking to others, especially believers, when your expressing that you do not believe, when you use these terms. It confuses them, and they almost always see it drenched in their religion, as does the overarching society.

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Aside from non belief there isn't much you can get too many to agree with.
Just like anyone else.
And even non belief agreeance is questionable, you agnostic gnostic atheist pantheist antitheist wash your feet or comb your hair to the left, right or down the middle ? It can be amusing.

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I feel it. I’ve been to a couple Jewish services and events and was impressed with how focused they were on the practical matters of education and building/maintaining family and community without much supernatural garbage. I’ve been wondering if it would be possible to create a secular analog to this.

The positive rally point(s) would be building a better future for humanity through education and building social constructs that promote harmonious cohesive groups on different scales from family to community to country to species.

To achieve this you have to get people to agree on a set of ideals to aim for, get people to buy in to their importance then create expectations of people to adhere to standards informed by these ideals. This needs to be achieved without appealing to anything supernatural.

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Folks here talk about everything, and l mean everything. That is why it is better than a regular dating site. The fact that everyone is a nonbeliever seems to make it easier for people to broach pretty much any subject.

@Akfishlady l'm not always good at that respectful part. ?

@Akfishlady

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I like hanging out and speaking with atheists because I don't have to indulge or argue as much nonsense. It's not so much I want to have lengthy discussions about atheism... although I have become a bit more anti-theistic of late, and I will rant... but there is not much need here. I've seen a few noobs storm in announcing "There is no god! I will debate anyone who says otherwise!!" ... cricket chirps ensue... preaching to the choir here (irony intended). I like to talk science and nonsense... but only mix them up for humor purposes. If you want a replacement for a religious discussion.. go philosophy. Anyhow, welcome.. there are a lot of interesting discussions... we do discuss Atheism and interacting with society as Atheists.. but there is more than that as well. I can only speak to my aforementioned proclivities... but there's all sorts of folks.. well not all sorts... but a lot of folks here... with a diverse array of background and interest.

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