This is one that I had to stop and really think about. I mean even though Santa Claus and things like the tooth fairy doesn’t exist, I don’t see much harm in telling kids as young as 3 or 4 that he’s real to brighten up their childhood holidays and keep the holidays fun and innocent. Only difference between things like Santa Claus is they eventually grow to understand he’s not real, but appreciate the innocence and fun of their childhood, unlike religion where children are taught at an early age that they are evil and is deserving of Hell Fire if they don’t believe in Jesus Christ because he suffered for them even though they had nothing to do with such a time that long ago then they grow into adulthood believing in such things and are scarred from the teachings of religion and Hell. What is your thoughts about this subject?
You can raise kids to be creative, witty, fun loving, and striving to be their best. Why destroy their respect for you by lying to them?
you're not destroying their respect. I don't know one child who learned over time that Santa isn't real who suddenly felt lied to.
@CrankyAntie You're correct. I shouldn't have mentioned respect, just simply, why lie to them?
@AstralSmoke well, in retrospect, I remember learning that my dad was the tooth fairy when I found my teeth in his dresser drawer! I don't think this is bad-in the right context. I think this can lead to good critical thinking skills for our kids as they figure things out and start to question it.
@CrankyAntie I see some validity in what you are saying. But in retrospect, we are teaching our children how to lie and invent things. So, they realize the 'truth' someday. Have we unwittingly corrupted their thinking processes? I have kids, their mom has greater input than I, and I think about this every day.
@AstralSmoke I don't think so-I think they understand the intention of the "lie," just like we did. I never concluded that lying was ok in general. I always understood the purpose of the "lie." It's more of the white lie that has positive intentions. I know that I asked questions about a lot of things after that-to include questions about church! After that, my dad remarried a catholic and the priest hated me because I was always questioning everything. I didn't blindly accept anything. I don't know for sure that these two things are related, but I know I became the "black sheep" as I never blindly accepted things that seemed outrageous or questionable. Like when the church said my atheist godparents would go to hell and weren't welcome... I questioned that terribly because they were good people!
@CrankyAntie I appreciate you telling me a little bit about your history. Your story sounds inspirational.
@AstralSmoke thanks~not really. I just think that some things are not black and white, like allowing our kids to believe in Santa while teaching them that deities don't exist. I think the "spirit" of xmas and Santa can still be important and whimsicle ways to learn compassion, family, and caring while still learning to think critically. Some things in life, like following Santa via the Norad Santa Tracker, are ok and should just be happy, joyful... delightful. We don't have to have supernatural beliefs to love certain holidays for what they give for family and compassion. And we can still help our kids to enjoy whimsy while living a life of critical thought. Ever go to a Renaissance Faire? Or a Star Trek convention? or Comicon?
@CrankyAntie Good points and I don’t disagree with them in theory.
When I was a kid we celebrated Christmas (modestly, had to with 5 kids) and I enjoyed it. I don’t ever remember believing in Santa, but I had older brothers and we got stuff!
I believe we see the same thing, just from different perspectives and that’s good, right?
In my opinion, it’s better to not lie. If you lie then it becomes a habit and much easier to do. If you lie to kids, either they don’t believe you (yeah!), or they believe you and their reasoning becomes confused. I do my best to be honest with my kids. Their mom, on the other hand, manipulates with lies. It’s a constant battle trying to keep the ship upright, but somebody has to do it, right?
Yes, I’ve been to several Renaissance fairs, just by happening across them. No desire to go to a Star Trek convention or Comicon. Music Festivals can be very enveloping.
Play acting does not require a belief.
@AstralSmoke my point about the fairs is that it's fun and whimsy. But I disagree that "it becomes easy to lie" to our kids. Not at all. I'm honest with my kids, and my oldest questioned santa due not only to my alternative beliefs but also he started figuring out where presents came from... the conversation becomes focused on the primary benefits of celebrating holidays-I don't personally recognize Thanksgiving but I still use the holiday to benefit family.
I'm not a big holiday fan. There are two that I wouldn't mind celebrating, but they aren't even holidays. Our families were/are very different. There are only 6 kids in the 'family', everyone else is grown. Some people enjoy swapping presents. Since we have a large family, we draw names. To me, it is a waste of time, effort, and money, to give just to receive something you will never use. Call me a Scrooge, but I'm not into it. And I'm definitely not going to lie about it.
Where do babies come from is a good question requiring different but honest answers depending on the age.
The great thing about Santa is that he is not real! It takes people and kids away from the lie of Jesus. Many Christians teach Santa to their children also and therefore are guilty of lying to their own kids and breaking their own commandments! As for me I tell my children the truth that Santa is fake but that they can still celebrate this holiday. The fact is that kids want gifts for themselves and they embrace the natural human instinct of loving thyself! There is nothing wrong with that and I teach my kids to do so! bring on the gifts from Santa even if Santa is dad! lol
By the way SANTA is just a misspelling for SATAN, and makes it so much fun to celebrate on a Christian holiday! lol. I bet you'll remember that the next time you see Santa all dressed up in red like the devil!
My daughter has grown up believing in the other holy trinity of Santa, Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy. She’s 8, so I’m pretty sure she’s faking her belief for the goodies now. But I have a standing rule that until she’s old enough to know that ?? ? ? aren’t real, she’s not old enough to go to church.
I am okay with it I'd be a bit surprised if my children hadnt twigged by the time they were 6 or 7.
My kids played along with the joke when they did catch themselves on. And they were hilarious pretending to believe so they;d still get a stocking I think it was good for us as a family all knowing that we were all pretending but going along with it for the laughs and jokes.
I love the idea of Santa, and what it represents. and so, I didn't have a problem with kids believing in Santa. As the years go by, they start to figure it out and question it all, and then I explain that while Santa isn't a real person, the "spirit" that Santa represents is wonderful, and the celebrations around family, community, and life are what make being human divine.
I love to follow Santa on Norad's SantaTracker each year too.
Infants and very young children don't start differentiating between fact and fiction until they're about six or seven so I suppose it's OK to play along with the Santa story for fun and for the sake of letting them conform with their peers.
At no point should one lie. I think a straight answer to a straight question should be given.
In the field of religion, many (most?) adults don't seem to be able to differentiate between fact and fiction, because from an early age, they were subjected to continuous lying and indoctrination from parents and teachers.
OK, a different angle, why tell, suggest, imply that there is a Santa Clause to begin with?
Socitiy at large kind of forces that on us i think and then we half to work it out for ourselves. This is really a interesting topic and it's got my mind going as my children are my life and I know most of us will wonder at times if we're making the right desitions.
@River-david It is a hard one, I was caught by parents and grandparents going on about it. I never actually told my kids there was a Santa. Our kids got gifts at Xmas, but always from parents, wrapped and all. Ex and I argued, she wanted to say some presents were from Santa. When the kids asked re Santa, I told them the truth- gently, was a non issue for them.
Both Santa and the Tooth Fairy went in a moment of critical thinking when our kid was six. There's a story behind that which I've told before, and it was a necessary thing to calm down an upset child who thought that a magical being had left her out. I'd always been uncomfortable with encouraging belief, but my wife was all for the 'magic' of fairies and suchlike.
Personally, I believe that kids should be encouraged to enjoy IMAGINING these things all they like, but should also be let in on the secret. Knowing the reality doesn't deprive them of any of the fun and wonderment of childhood and it inoculates against magical thinking and all the insidious stuff that comes with it.
@Philosopearl Lady Cottington's pressed fairy book is marvellously sick. ?
My entire family was all for pushing Santa Claus to the kids at Christmas time. So my son believed until he was probably around 5. After that Christmas, he came to me at one point and asked me, "Mom, do you believe in Santa Claus?"
I answered him like this: "What I believe in is the spirit of Christmas. I believe in the way that it makes me feel better about myself when I do things for others and give to others and I think that Santa Claus represents the spirit of Christmas for us, like St Nick does for other people and there are others like Father Christmas in other places." He looked at me for a while and then said - "Oooh - I get it.... so other people can buy the presents but everybody gets to be nice like a Santa would be?"
From the mouths of babes.
I think it's probably OK and harmless for very little children but once they get to about five or six, if they haven't figured it out for themselves, it might be time to start speaking a bit more honestly about the "santa" that people play along with, wink wink, nudge nudge. I suppose that was my tactic from the get go, santa was just something that everyone plays along with, it just takes a while for children to understand the tongue in cheek nature of santa. It can still be fun, not being real, but being a little in joke that everyone is in on.
when she was little, I explained to my daughter that Santa was the 'spirit of christmas' - and as a spirit, he could turn the hearts of others into being loving and giving. But so strong was this power (and so shortlived the affects) that he chose to do this to all the world, but only once a year.
It turned out to be a good way to 'de-christianize' the holiday, but still allow it to have meaning.
If I have to tell children that Santa and the Tooth Fairy are real I will throw in parts form time to time about heaven and crucifixion. By the time the child realizes this is not true they will also see that god and Jesus are not true as well. They might outgrow god and Santa at the same time instead of trading one for the other.
I'm against it. Back when I was 4 or 5 I can remember my brother taking me to the burn barrel behind our house and showing me all of the cartons the toy trucks and so on came in before I unwrapped them as presents believing the BS that Santa gave me these things because I was a good boy. I was devastated because even at that young age I realized that the adults in my life had failed me and now the only thing I believed in turned out to be BS too.
I taught my kids to understand that the spirit of the holiday was about giving - without expecting anything in return. We give because it makes that person feel better, it makes them feel like they matter and that they're important. The benefit is seeing their smiles and that should make them feel better too.
It's useful lesson to not trust authority. It's great for so many reasons from the childish magic and wonder to the deductive process and growing realisation that challenges their world view. Also hopefully a lesson for later life when they get to decide for themselves if other holiday characters are real... Encourage skepticism - tell lies.
Let them be children... eventually money will be their god. Making Money and saving money for retirement. Sad....
I never told them either way. Its father christmas for us and he existed until then kinda worked it out for themselves, which was very young. My Mum said I never believed it and my kids were all rather cynical too. I was a bit cross when my oldest son told my youngest son's mate when they were about 10. His answer was 'ffs mum he's 10 he can go to war in a few years' (Isaac was 12 at the time). My children are unusually bright and cynical. I do not think it creates a trust issue if you are all in on the fantasy.
Tiny children cannot distinguish fantasy from reality.
Little children are going to believe all kinds of fanciful things, no matter what you do or do not tell them. Just ask a three-year-old what they did at preschool/daycare today--and buckle up.
I see no harm in engaging in a structured, fun, participatory cultural fantasy for a child of an appropriate age. As we've heard recently, you can't stop them from thinking Spiderman is real, at least for a minute, so...