Guns: Love them or leave them?
Through a willful misinterpretation of the 2nd amendment an activist Supreme Court pushing a conservative agenda has ruled that virtually anyone can own an arsenal of guns with little or no restriction. Though the 2nd amendment clearly authorizes the formation of "well-regulated militias" by states, i.e. National Guards, and does not address individual citizens' rights this has been twisted to allow private ownership of guns. The country is awash in guns and we pay the price of 35,000 gun deaths a year as a result. My father was a "responsible" gun owner. When he died the guns were stolen when his house was ransacked and ended up who knows where. Armed robbery is so common it hardly makes the news. Robbers are as willing to shoot shop keepers as shopkeepers are willing to shoot robbers. Over what? Some merchandise and/or cash? Is that worth killing or dying for? Home invasion is the boogey man that justifies many people's decision to keep guns in their homes. Statistically, one is more likely to be shot with his own gun than to prevent an intruder from stealing their TV. Cops have proved they are not capable of carrying guns and using them appropriately. Trigger happy cops routinely kill mentally ill unarmed victims or people of color needlessly because they feel their lives are threatened. 99% of the time the most outrageous acts of violence by cops are ruled justifiable. Accidental shootings of children by other children are all too common because they find a gun supposedly kept in a secure place by its "responsible" owner. Road rage, suicide and other acts of passion committed in a moment of irrational rage or depression have lead to many tragedies. Hunting is another activity used to justify gun ownership. We kill the top predators as trophies and then complain about the "vermin" like deer who overpopulate their shrinking reserves and use that as an excuse to shoot the deer. It is my opinion that NOBODY needs a gun. I would feel safer in a society unarmed than armed. Many western countries do not allow gun ownership by private citizens and they thrive without the horrible statistics in the United States. Should we find a way to ban guns in this country even if it means rewriting the Constitution?
1
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17 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.As a liberal I find myself alone often times on this issue. Why we need the 2nd Amendment is because when our system fails & someone such as Trumpty Dumpty attains power, & the knock at the door comes at night as it did in Chile, Argentina, Haiti, etc. I will not let them take me without taking a few of them with me. The Warsaw ghetto had no guns. The Native Americans had no guns. I agree with everything you posted. As many guns that are saturating this country I am surprised that the murder statistic is not higher. I do not own a gun, because I would use it. But if the political situation becomes more threatening, I may reconsider. When "they" begin to round up dissidents & put them in an enclosed arena.....it happened in Chile the oldest South American democracy , I will defend myself. I am close to Canada, but I have got to make it there alive should such a nightmare unfold.
Mooolah
Level 8
Feb 4, 2018
1
Let’s jist go back to the cave men days where the biggest and strongest just beat the crap out of you and take what they want. I myself have been victimized by crinimals and I have no intention of giving up my guns, be damned idiots like Obama who has many bodyguards.
Trajan61
Level 8
Jan 15, 2018
0
I used to be very anti-gun. With time and a greater sense of my physical vulnerability, I purchased a pistol. Just one. It's for one reason -- somebody forces their way into my home with the clear intent to hurt/rape/kill me. I KNOW I cannot overpower or sweet talk a rapist or murderer. Period.
BlueWave
Level 8
Jan 12, 2018
0
I do not live in the US so I`ve no dog in this fight but it does seem bizarre that can own a gun but not play online poker. Some of the most rabid pro gun people I have come across online (not here). Are the very same type of idiots that would not trust with a knife and fork without close supervision. They seem to lack any form of compassion for the victims and are only concerned about "their" rights. I suppose it is a case of my favorite political/governmental joke.
A man stops his car in rural Ireland and asks an old guy "Can you tell me how to get to Cork?"
"Well if I were you , I would not have started from here".
273kelvin
Level 8
Jan 12, 2018
1
Looking in on this from the UK I find the American attitude to guns quite bizarre. And to your constitution for that matter. "You can't change our constitution" you shout with the same passion that evangelists shout about the bible. When actually, you can. The right to bear arms is the second AMENDMENT. Like the prohibition of alcohol was the 18th amendment and the 21st amendment that repealed the 18th amendment. It can change with the times to protect and serve the American public.
You appear to have the attitude that when someone breaks into your house they do so intent on killing you. I would have thought they are more likely to want to steal your stuff. Here in the UK, house burglars rarely carry weapons because they know if they wake someone up, they can just run off (or at worst swing at you with a chair or vase or something) and if they get caught get a few years prison as opposed to life if they shot at you if you woke up. In the states if they disturb you, they will likely have a weapon because they are likely to get shot at - so will shoot first to protect themselves. It would appear to be a vicious circle - more law abiding citizens carry guns means more criminals carry guns which means more people get shot. More people are shot and killed in the states by other Americans daily than are killed in a year by terrorists, yet you have this high profile war on terror and muslims. The biggest threat to your safety is much closer to home.
And, yes, you are right. It is none of my business!!! 
Uncorrugated
Level 7
Dec 29, 2017
2
I never liked guns. My family was alcoholic and gun happy. However, now I have had to change my mind. IT's time to gun up. When Trump's laws are finally hitting, there may just be anarchy.
They say we are 9 days from anarchy. That's how long starvation and desperation last before people just loose it. Get an AR and be done with it.
Waco2017
Level 4
Dec 29, 2017
0
I seem to remember a similar idea in Waco a number of years ago.
I understand the visceral desire to ban guns, but in the US you might as well try to ban rain. Countries such as Australia and the UK, where handguns and center-fire semi-automatic long guns are banned, had few of those to begin with. Break open shotguns and bolt action rifles were common enough in rural communities, and still are. The US is in an entirely different class in terms of gun ownership. Not to mention that pesky 2nd amendment, which because of Heller and McDonald is codified as an individual right. So, you can work toward a repeal of the 2nd amendment, a labor of Hercules I think.
Or we can work on root cause mitigation for violence prevention, stronger mental health care, addressing poverty, homelessness and unemployment.
Most of the other stuff: waiting periods, magazine restrictions, ammo limits, bans on certain features can only have a very limited effect.
9gello
Level 4
Dec 27, 2017
1
This sounds like the Liberal Gun Club mantra, 9gello. In reality, I think you just like guns and that won't change no matter how many school shootings there are. But you can't really say that because...well because. Therefore, the easiest option is to simply argue that a gun ban is not achievable. Next you mention that mental illness, homelessness, unemployment and poverty are the "real" problems. But mental illness and poverty and all of the above are endemic in most countries across the world. Gun deaths aren't.
You've obviously copy/pasted every talking point ever invented (99% of which is either total bullshit or at best totally skewed) for banning guns. The bottom line/easy answer to your problem is clear, just move to a gun free country.. Face it, it's your best option to actually live in the type of society you would prefer.. Guns will not be banned, much less removed/taken from.... everyone here that has one. That shit aint happening.. get over it.. I would hope one day you really research the actual stats on gun crime vs gun ownership/possession/use, etc... and go to reliable sources for the facts... Anti-gun groups will cherry pick the numbers all day long and feed them to you as good overall stats... such bullshit... Here's some numbers for you.. There are literally tens of millions of legal gun owners in the country, owning over 300 million guns and over 12 TRILLION rounds of ammunition. I'm talking people that actually went to the Sheriff and got permits,, jumped through the hoops that are already there so that they would be LAW ABIDING (key words there) citizens, Believe me, if WE were the problem,, you would know it.. The crooks out there wouldn't give two flying fucks about any new laws,, much less bans you people would like to see put in place,, in fact they would welcome it.. then the law abiding people they would target would be unarmed and defenseless... Face it, this country will never ban guns (much less ever be able to enforce a ban and collect them all), so if you don't want to be around them, you're going to have to move..
Captain_Feelgood
Level 8
Dec 18, 2017
2
You are a throw back to the '60's and '70'swhen the glib answer to the peace protestors from the war mongers was "Love it or Leave it." Someday, the government will live up to its duty to protect its citizens from all enemies foreign and domestic. Gun owners are domestic enemies and when the military is directed to take your guns I'll laugh watching you die with your pea shooter in hand facing off against the US military. But right now they are too busy standing between all sides in wars where every side is armed by the US. Good for business, you know. But wait. The pendulum will swing.
Perhaps you should review the oath again. "I do solemnly swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic!" There's a reason freedom of speech is the first, and the right to own and carry a gun is the second. They did a survey of a bunch of Marines in the late 90s. (operators no less,,, those are soldiers that actually shoot guns in battle, not the paper pushers and mechanics) , over 60 percent said they would not follow an order to confiscate civilian's guns, much less shoot them for not cooperating with the order to do so.
Its interesting to me how the love and peace hippies in the 60s and 70s you speak of were always talking about fighting back against "the man" that was the feds that made laws restricting their freedoms,, making it illegal to smoke pot and telling soldiers to fight in Nam, but now those same hippies that grew up now want the feds to restrict our freedoms, freedom to protect ourselves.. Very strange indeed..
@GareBear517
0
And for the record, you saying you will laugh watching me die... says volumes about you as a human... If the shit ever does hit the fan, it won't be people like me dying. It will be you. But I won't be laughing at your death, I'll feel a little sorry for you.... very little.
The "when guns are outlawed only..." is one of the big talking points. These points and the gun mentality of this country comes from the industry. I have a clear sign in my driveway "this is a gun free property, NRA owners not welcomed". I get nothing but positive comments.My property rights beat others perceived gun rights. Yes, I know the reply would be a gun person could easily take away my property rights but I will not be cowered. I still believe we have not reached total anarchy yet, at least not in my part of the world.
@JackPedigo I think you mean ''NRA members'',, and that's cool... You probably have friends that are gun owners and you don't even know it.. In the law portion of our concealed carry training, we're taught that we aren't allowed to carry anywhere that is posted ''no weapons.... no firearms.. etc'' and we ''law abiding gun owners'' stand by the rule and follow it.. no problem.. I'm not sure what you mean by the gun mentality... and it coming from the industry... I'm sure you DO get positive comments,, probably from both anti gunners and the opposite alike.. Gun owners/enthusiasts aren't opposed to you not wanting guns around your house.. I promise you,, we don't care.. And I assure you, the law abiding gun owner isn't the one you need to worry about taking your property.. If a good gun owner goes to your house and sees your sign,, they'll just keep walking, not bothering to let you know how ridiculous you're being... But yeah, that lot of people out there that don't give a shit about law,, much less your sign, they're the ones you need to worry about negating your property rights.. so good luck with that whole sign thing.. I hope it doesn't inadvertently lead that bad lot of folks to your home one night. Because you are exactly the type of home owner they'll love to come visit..
Cheers
Your one of the few people on this website who has any sense as unfortunately most of them are raving left wing gun control, Obama loving liberals!
@JackPedigo Here in Oklahoma if you ran for office on a anti NRA gun control platform you would be sure to get beat! I am a life member of the NRA myself and damn proud of it! I consider liberal idiots like Obama to be the far greater threat!
@Trajan61 Oklahoma is not exactly a model of reasoned thinking. All one has to do is look at the statistics. Then compare those statistics with other countries and see who is the more "civilized".
@Captain_Feelgood Sometimes I get to typing so much I miss some details, yes "members".
My sign is simply a statement of how I feel. Most of the people I know think our gun culture has gotten way out of hand and someone needs to start even if it is with a simple statement. I also give to anti-gun violence groups. I do have some friends with guns and recently found out about one who has some antique rifles. He said he inherited them, doesn't use them and are locked in a man safe that was put in the house by a former owner. If I know someone has a strong pro-gun mentality and has weapons I won't go into their home. But we need to distinguish between conscious gun owners and ones who don't care and put their perceived rights above all others (kind of like the religionists).
Years ago I read a German analysis of how owning a gun can shape how one thinks. Since the industry and their lackey, the NRA, has lobbied congress to stop studies from the CDC and NIH we can't get information we need on this here. There is a mentality and people do change when they own guns. It usually comes down to one not letting it affect them as it does some. Yes, good gun owner, but all it takes is for one bad one to kill and maim and they do. Our library has a magazine exchange rack and I sometimes pick up any gun magazines and go through them to see how these people think (or want others to think). Did you know there are 3 precious metals? Gold, Silver and Lead. A new, semi-automatic pistol which can be put onto a rifle stock, is being sold and is called "Saint".
@GareBear517 People like you and that arrogant Obama are the ones who are a threat to freedom in this country. Just keep in mind there’s absolutely no danger of the US military picking up guns from law abiding citizens here in the US as long as Trump is commander in chief.
@JackPedigo Washington State is well known as a hotbed if left wing liberalism. There the ones along with the rest of the west coast that put idiots like Obama in office! I’ll take Oklahoma over Washington state any day!
@Trajan61 There’s a reason the coastal states, especially Washington, are so prosperous and the middle states are known as “flyover” states.
'Unfounded' jabs at Obama (or anyone else for that matter) and even more 'unfounded' lauds for tRump I see as a reflection of the jabbers.
The way I see it, guns that have no other use but kill as many people as possible are anathema to a civilized nation and basically a reflection of fear. Many of us stand up to that fear and support our society in ways that decreases violence. Living with fear is not really living.
@Trajan61 Der Drumpf will be lucky to serve two years much less four before he is impeached or, better yet, drops dead. Anyone who lauds the Orange Cheato has no credibility with me,
One thing about it if we ever get in a war with the liberals we conservatives should win as the liberals don’t believe in guns.
I think the 2nd Amendment should be repealed. It's completely obsolescent. But that's not realistic, given Americans' neurotic fixation on their firearms. We need a Congress willing to enact realistic regulation, such as background checks and the ban of assault weapons, etc. But then, that would require electing politicians with both functional brains and functional backbones.
Garydaylight
Level 2
Dec 18, 2017
2
The entire Constitution is obsolete and beyond mere amending to correct it. It needs to be rewritten to reflect the progressive, secular humanist values of the day.
to go along with the 2500 or so firearm laws already on the books?
as the poster at the peace rally in trafalgar sq. london said " STOP KILLING PEOPLE YOU F+++ING TWATS
markdevenish
Level 7
Dec 17, 2017
2
Great post... I agree. However, I think you’re spitting in the wind... availability seems to be the issue, along with some ridiculous laws. History of mental illness should pre-clude anyone from gun ownership... recently the state of Wisconsin passed a bill allowing 6 year olds licensing to hunt. Every year “experienced” hunters accidentally kill one another... (Dick Cheney) I think if you’re gonna be a hunter mandatory qualification, insurance, registration, should be a requirement. This should get lots of discussion.
Tomas
Level 7
Dec 17, 2017
1
I am in favor of requiring liability insurance for gun ownership. If the gun is lost or stolen the original owner should be on the hook for the consequences of the gun falling into the "wrong" hands. That owner should also be automatically liable for any accident involving the gun including shooting himself or someone else while cleaning it
Yes. The owner is at least partially liability because he/she left the gun vulnerable to theft. My suggestion would be to leave the gun in a locked facility at a gun range where it is under 24/7 surveillance. Both the owner and the facility should be required to hold a liability insurance policy. If you want to keep a gun at home then you are liable in the event of any accident, crime of passion or theft. As for the table saw, if you neglect to give the borrower a blade guard or have not checked that person out for their competence in operating a dangerous machine then you are also at least partially liable.
I am a gun owner, always have been, always will be. Was raised about hunting and guns so it was never an issue. It's not about the weapon as much as it's about the person behind the weapon. I keep my gun locked and loaded. I take no prisoners if anyone walks thru my door unannounced.
mistymoon77
Level 9
Dec 17, 2017
1
Hope your kids never get hold of it. I am sorry you live in such a terrifying world. Have you sought professional help?
@GareBear517... what the hells wrong with you?
I was wondering the same thing.. 
Thanks Bucketlistbob, but figured it was a personal deep rooted issue & wasn't worth a response.
You gun nuts are what's wrong with me!
@GareBear517 hmmm.... you would rather let someone mess you up and you lay there and take it. Iet your significant other take it. IT can be whatever your mind comes up with. Well you be my guest. It's us gun nuts that protect you when we can.
@GareBear517 It appears you did not want to really create a conversation, but to insult people. That's sad.
I hate guns. For many reasons. I grew up around them, went hunting with my Dad. They are tools of death. They have no other function but to kill. Since we have allowed the 2nd amendment to be so completely bastardized we must then put forward solutions that can help in the safety of all people.
Like cars, all guns should be registered, you must have a license to own a gun and your ability to handle and be responsible with a gun must be monitored, just like a drivers license. Background checks should be intense and far reaching. There is more. But that is where I would start.
Someone elses "right" to a gun, should not mean my son's have less right to life.
jeran0312
Level 5
Dec 16, 2017
3
No...no....no..... love my guns. Anybody around here can buy a rifle or shot gun. In Louisiana you have to have a background check to buy a pistol from a dealer. You can buy off an individuals. Louisiana is an open carry state on hand guns. You need another permit for conceal carry.
I hear your concern on guns. I personally have them because I can. I love my guns. They are located in my house to make things easy. Just like those movies you see on tv. Lol!... the shooting range is my friend...
BucketlistBob
Level 8
Dec 16, 2017
3
Some people like banana and peanut butter sandwiches with chocolate sauce. There is no accounting for taste.
Your on my comment. your directing your statement at me. What are you saying to me? Why do you feel bold enough to make this statement?
@Acinom16. You are the man!
Its sad about everyone wanting to ban guns. That just makes it safer for the guy robbing you. I hear something going on in my house. I make sure my wife is next to me and I grab my gun. That simple. easy to turn the lights on or grab a flash light. Banning guns aint going to make them go away.
@Acinom16 I've managed to go 67 years without finding myself in a situation requiring violence to respond. If you live in fear of people wanting to break into your house to kill you maybe you should look at the way you are living your life and how you treat the people around you. The fact that you need a gun to feel secure gives some indication of your whole outlook on life. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to know you.
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