I want to be entirely clear on the idea of whether or not science is a belief. I don’t want to get in to the semantics for the sake of brevity, so I’ll give you that science is a belief. However, that in no way nullifies or means you can pick and choose from day to day or generation to generation what you WANT to be true from science.
Being wrong in science is a pivotal moment and it’s never a bad thing. The same properties giving planes the ability to fly, carrying scientists and babies, also existed when Jesus was feeding thousands with a handful of bread and a few fish. However, I can show you mathematically and physically why it’s true for the plane flying. The latter though… unfortunately we haven’t developed the technology for the Star Trek Replicator. That I’m still working on.
So take it on faith, that’s ok… you’re free to do that. However, as soon as I start taking my belief in Science on faith… You can’t call it science anymore. So please, I encourage you to view science as a belief, but be acutely aware of what you’re implying.
The standard by which you measure the accuracy of your belief in religion is nothing at all the same for the standard by which I measure the accuracy of my belief in science. That’s the issue.
There is a name for belief in science beyond what it actually is.
Scientism.
Personally the more prevalent belief is more a from of techno fetishism.
The faith that somehow those clever boffins that we barely bother funding will come up with technological solutions to all of our problems.
If you take on science as a belief, you aren't really a scientist.
Generally speaking, I don’t actually view science as a belief or even a system of belief. My intention relating it to and even calling it a belief is simply because there are a large number of people that seem to think calling science a belief vindicates their religious or spiritual point of view or argument in some way. At best, my statement about science and belief is an apologetic way of trying to say STFU to those trying to equate science and its processes to a belief in religion or spirituality.
Understanding our world needs an objective means for expressing subjective experiences we each have when we leverage the scientific process. This is precisely why we utilize things like peer review, rigor, and repeatability in experimentation.
Science isn’t about a singular, coherent truth (bear with me)... it’s about building models and fitting those models to what we observe in nature; what we talk about as truth is a byproduct when nature and the model exist in harmony. Science affords us an opportunity to say this is my idea of the way nature works, my hypothesis. You then build a model and take measurements through experimentation. After consulting the data you acquired via experiment to verify that the model does indeed fit the data, congratulations on your new budding theory. You keep verifying the model over and over again, and not just you... your fellow scientists the world over. If ever the data doesn’t fit your model, you either find the hiccup in your model and fix it to fit the data or you ditch the model entirely. That simple.
So to some extent, science is a belief system, but it isn’t structured like and doesn’t offer the same standards as religious or spiritual belief; this is my whole point. It’s different... significantly, and we [I] probably shouldn’t ever group science, religion, and spirituality together as “belief structures”. It’s strictly intended to illustrate why a “belief” in science is not the same as a belief in religion or spirituality... something all of us here are aware of because science isn’t a belief.
Science, or Natural Philosophy as I prefer to call it, is not a belief - it is a method. A system for explaining things.
"However, I can show you mathematically and physically why it’s true for the plane flying".
Go on then.
When the force of thrust is greater than the opposing force of drag, the plane moves forward.
When the force of lift is greater than the opposing force of weight, the plane leaves the ground.
Both Bernoulli and Newton have some principles and laws that spell it out better in differential calculus, but I’m lazy. I haven’t dealt with anything in Classical Mechanics since college... I’ve drank quite a bit since then.
A Belief or system of Belief requires 2 main elements, a) Faith, and, b) Faith WITHOUT any empirical/definable/falsifiable evidence what-so-ever.
Where as Sciences require Evidence, Experimentation, Testing, Discussion, Debating, Re-Testing, Re-Examining and re-debating UNTIL either PROVEN Correct or incorrect. Ergo Science is NOT a religion since it demands and requires the production of those things religions cannot exhibit.
Totally agree.
Science is not a belief. It's the only tried and true method ever found to get to what really works. Without science, we wouldn't be talking about it, because there would be no satellites, or internet. We wouldn't have modern medicine, computers or space travel. My understanding of a belief is a thought that maybe Bigfoot exists. You have no evidence, you just feel it in your heart, or maybe you were brought up to believe Bigfoot exists.
Science should not be a belief.
Anyone who has had access to a decent scientific education knows this.
Sadly, even in AUS, where anyone who can get through high school can have the government finance them through higher education? Where a pass grade is the same as a honours graduate in the USA where I was born?
For the people who don't know who Madame Curie was, who have never heard of Mendeleev. Poor bastards like me who could barely wrap their heads round electron shells let alone organic chem?
Prove to me that big foot does not exist? Or that the earth is round?
I think that the root of your comment is a belief in our current existence and that you're simply using science as an extension of that. All of the great philosophers have raised questions about existence, so extending this to science and what we think is true is no great leap.
There is definitely a bit a time required for learning bits and pieces of what others have brought to light through various studies and theories. There is definitely the belief that there is always more to learn, which unfortunately gets turned on its head occasionally like MMR vaccine causes Autism along with various others things like measles (it doesn't) and other 12000 tests to disprove a fraudulent study in the 1990s on 12 boys.
That is an almost religious trust of authority that even something disproven and admitted by conductor still holds weight in some peoples minds.
Austic people have a greater tendency towards being involved in research.
Research leads to vaccines.
Thus Autism causes Vaccines.
Science yields the same answer, REGARDLESS of what one believes. Scientific method is a process for explaining the cosmos around us. Some explanations give way to newer ones as evidence is uncovered. One could choose not to accept the evidence or conclusion, or to agree with it. The evidence has been gathered, though. It exists. There is no faith or belief involved.
What? Nevermind! They answered for me...love you man.
What? Please explain believers...
Remember that science is just not a list of natural facts, it is also the process of theory, testing, and proof or disproof, whatever the case is. None of this applies to the concept of belief.
Thank you...
Not with regard to the rigor of science; I didn’t mean to suggest otherwise.
This is something I wrote intended for someone that would substantiate their claim by claiming you could find it in the Bible. There’s no reasoning with that. So I put it in terms they could potentially choke down.
@Quintproquo Give them as much as they can take, and when then gag, let them know that they are doing well.
Can work well in other contexts as well.
Not being a scientist myself and taking for granted that scientists are more intelligent than me (generally) I take 'on board" (trust) that what they tell me about the Universe around me is factual.
Thank you..
Idiot!!!!!!!
I imagine you don’t just take all things like that at face value... at least I hope not.
There are certain oddities about the way our universe functions that even the most seasoned scientist would struggle rationalizing and explaining. Creativity and Intuition go a long way for coming up with hypotheses and sometimes when those things are used it can sound like belief. However, ultimately it isn’t actually a belief because if the hypothesis is wrong, it’s trashed; if it’s right... then it can potentially graduate to theory, but it must go through substantial vetting before it gets to that point.
My Car works.
I have some primitive ideas about fuel injection, fuel air mix in the presence of a spark, explosions in a confined space and the behavior of pistons in the presence of that. Maybe even some ideas about harmonic balance in a rapidly rotating system.
When I turn my key in the ignition, I have faith that it works, that the car will start.
It usually starts, when it does not I go looking for reasons. "god didn't want me to to to work today" lags behind "is there fuel in the tank, or is there charge in the battery right now"
You are absolutely right! There are valid and tested standards for judging the accuracy of scientific beliefs, but NO standards for judging the validity and accuracy of ANY religious beliefs.
Thank you..
There are standards for measuring (judging) the validity and accuracy of religious belief, but those standards have no place in science.
It’s largely why we have people blowing up abortion clinics, beating the fuck out of people for the genders they are inclined to have sex with, or sewing shut female genitalia of newborns. Why?? Because that’s the lengths these people will go to prove their belief is real. They are the standards by which they illustrate to the world their resolve in their belief and the existence of their deity.
Less graphic examples would be salvation, last rites, baptism, sacrament, speaking in tongues, and so on. These are hollow and empty in proving anything to a non-believer, but they are enough to validate and even substantiate belief for a believer.