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Anyone experienced this? I keep my status private at work, although some know me outside of work. A tightrope.

When work puts you back in the closet.

[money.cnn.com]

KateZilla 7 Aug 11
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0

Another great thread here. I just finished a Netflix series from Australia that I thoroughly enjoyed watching. It has a trans character as well as numerous variations on sexual identity that was generally handled in a forthright way. It’s called Secret City. Sexual behavior and identity just shouldn’t matter and I believe the series does justice to the reality even if it only scratches the surface. This thread is brilliant but I am not feeling very much like really digging in more, but great job to all. We all juggle and have to often carefully navigate our lives. By what I have read, kudos to all. Great responses and stories. I so respect each of you.

sophmag Level 5 Aug 13, 2018

Thanks for the Netflix tip! ?

0

Personally, I am put at work. My bigger fear is having to possibly go back in the closet in retirement some day. Everyones situation is different.

1

I have been out now at work the past 5 years, but only to people closest to me, with whom it is customary to talk about weekend plans, etc. Right now that is only 4 people (very small department). We have a couple new doctors coming on-board in the coming months. I fully intend to clue them in, but it needs to come up naturally. It is not something I feel like making an issue of. To my counseling patients, I make a conscious point to come out to those who are identifying as lgbt and have expressed they've been through a lot of judgment and rejection for it. I think it's important they understand that I personally get where they're coming from. I still don't talk any details about my personal relationships, to be sure. Non-lgbt patients I am never out to, but if they directly ask me, I am not going to lie. If they want to find another counselor over that information, perhaps they should.

0

I noticed the article talked about work culture and social attitudes but said NOTHING about legal dangers faced by employees. A few comments here touched on that point. It is worth pointing out that there is still no federal protection for LGBT people in the workplace, and many states remain at-will states, where employers don't even have to provide a justification for why they fire someone if they don't want to. It is then very hard for that employee to prove that discrimination, even if it happens to be illegal, was the reason for being fired.
I work in Louisiana, one of the worst of the worst in terms of worker rights and Bible-thumping homophobic culture (I tip my hat to our Mississippi neighbors). I most certainly was not out early in my career; same reason the article mentions of young workers feeling particularly vulnerable without experience "cred" yet to argue in their favor.
I now work for a large health care system that has explicit policies protecting lgbt people. We've even had a cultural sensitivity training campaign the past 4 years to alert employees to concerns and needs of trans patients. So I "can" be out at work. But policies and culture don't always mesh perfectly, to say the least.

I work in psychiatry, which is supposed to be particularly enlightened about this stuff, and yes, it IS better than many fields in this respect, but I still hear tidbits of homophobic sentiment pop out here and there, and some of the worst has even come from a high-ranking clinician in psychiatry I used to work with, someone who sets policy and wields a lot of clout with promotions and pay raises. He wasn't mean about it, just clueless and kind of insensitive, and that can still effect one's career opportunities and work environment negatively. I never directly came out to him. Over time I think he might have pieced it together, but even so, he was generally narcissistic enough not to bother remembering personal details of his underlings. He once mentioned to me as advice to avoid talking to patients about my personal life, a piece of advice I saw him routinely violate for himself.

0

It's a shame people still feel the need to do this. I think a lot of it is about small pockets of negativity towards LGBT, often passed off as humour, the 'humour' innocently joined in with by others, and the whole thing going unchallenged. I don't believe this is typically systemic homophobia and transphobia.

I came out at work several years ago. One person in particular worried me, because he'd made his opinion of "queers" quite clear a few times in the past. And he seemed pretty serious. But none of this has changed the way he treats me at all. We still get on and have a laugh. He just no longer expresses those opinions.

And I'm not sure he still holds them. I'm I strong believer that if you come out to someone you know well, they're likely to change their beliefs about LGBT people based on the person they know you to be, rather than the other way around. Of course it doesn't always work out like that. Some people genuinely react badly to that revelation, and there's always a danger that one of those people will be one of your superiors.

My boss sat me down and said "Firstly, this doesn't affect your job. Secondly, if anyone makes an issue of it, you come straight to me. Thirdly, if you ever decide to transition, please come and talk it through with us so that we can work out how to best integrate it into the workplace."

Probably straight out of an HR textbook, but I really can't fault him or the organisation on the handling, and it's pretty clear from his own positivity that he doesn't have any personal issues with my sexuality or gender identity.

0

I’m not out at work. It is none of their darn business.

CS60 Level 7 Aug 11, 2018
0

I have been out at all of my jobs since I was 21. At first, in the 90's, it was part of some duty I felt that I had, part of national coming out day. Even with non-discrimination policies, people are still prejudiced. As it evolved into a crusade for equal rights, it became about my life and my marriage, my rights, my pay. Currently, I work for the state of Texas. The department I work for has non-discrimination policy. My boss is a gay man, my director is
a lesbian. We are all out. My office is, at full employment, is 1000+ strong, the department mostly women, very well educated and capable. The biggest surprise has been the firing of women for (almost) openly discriminating against other women. The gay and bisexual women in those departments all quit, as did all of the new mothers.
Discrimination is insidious, just because your office is safe now, it might all change with one bad manager. I think if I had it to do all over, I would remain aloof to my co-workers about my personal life. I would wear a ring whether or not I was married. If I developed friendships with coworkers, it would be off campus. It's difficult when I work with women because I inherently trust them.

JBradford Level 5 Aug 11, 2018

@PalacinkyPDX
Sorry, it was unclear:. Two female managers in my directorate were fired after it was shown that they, over the course of years, discriminated against women (in general)
Incidentally, The gay and bisexual women that I knew in those departments all quit (not at the same time).
Only women were ever fired for performance based issues in their departments. Women almost never got merit raises.
The two were fired when a Lesbian was made director, and she was able to launch the investigation right away.
Sorry about that....

0

I'm not out at work. A couple of women customers are trying to see me outside work and one has asked me if I'm gay. I laughed and said no. Since I'm bi it was technically not a lie but the point remains; it would be dangerous for them to know.

rainmanjr Level 8 Aug 11, 2018
0

If the article is a picture of your world, I am having a hard time identifying with it. People at work are only acquaintances. I have never socialized much with people I work with. I know others do, but I have difficulty with that. That does not mean I don't interact, but I keep secrets comfortably.

Omots Level 7 Aug 11, 2018

@icolan I have been friends with my co-workers, but there are different levels of friendship. There are enough problems at work that come with the visible biases. I worked in a warehouse that had one black employee out of over a hundred employees. He mentioned to me more than once about how the company was making a concerted effort to keep black people out. Discrimination of all types exists in the workplace. Maintaining an environment free from hostility takes an effort from everyone involved. People that are biased homophobes are going to have a harder time keeping it out of the workplace if they see it displayed unnecessarily. I don't like that answer, but I want to do my job and get paid. That is it. I expect nothing but cordiality from my co-workers. That is all they are going to get from me. That is life in a warehouse.

@icolan Post-script. It is the things that are said behind a persons back that are hurtful and hostile. I have workrd with openly gay people. The owner of the company was gay. People talked quietly among themselves. They were afraid to be too open about their bias because the owner was gay. It still happened though.

@icolan something I was taught in the military: We are all bigots. We are all biased. Can’t help it. There is nothing wrong with it, as long as we keep it out of the workplace. If you come across someone who can’t keep it out of the workplace, document it. Don’t be quiet about it. Establish a patern. Get the MF fired. That is your responsibility to do to keep Discrimination out of the workplace, but the reality is, everyone is bigoted and everyone is biased. Regular shitty puzzle.

@icolan I am repeating something I was taught. It has surprised me when I have discovered it in myself. I just note it and move on. I am gay, but I have discovered gay bigotry in me. I have discovered sexist and racial bigotry in me. It just occasionally pops out and surprises me. Once I am aware of it, I change.

3

I'm not out at work. I think it's perfectly okay to keep it private in certain situations. In thinking about it, I'm not sure if that's "being in the closet," or just knowing that keeping it private is more prudent with some people. Plus, my bosses don't discuss their private life/sex life with me, so I don't feel the need to discuss mine with them.

Great comment.

@PalacinkyPDX Yes, that's a good way to put it -- selectively out. I like that.

1

My work is very inclusive and diverse. We can all be who we are and be comfortable at the office.

3

Work was the last place I came out to. It was the only place I presented even remotely as a man, and it kept me from going in the place (I can work from home). Other than work, I'd been presenting as female 24/7 for 8 months.

To cut a long story short, coming out was the best decision of my life, by far. I'm trans, bi, poly, and couldn't care less who knows or what their opinion is about it. I'm happy af, and that's way good enough for me.

MollyBell Level 7 Aug 11, 2018
0

Can't see who is or isn't an insufferable pig in today's world when everyone looks the same. Even those that know, I trust only so far. What is said to your face could be a lie.

Omots Level 7 Aug 11, 2018

Spoken like a true resident of the Deep South! There are rights, and standing up for ourselves, contributing to queer visibility so necessary for social attitudes to change over time, and being proud of who we are, and THEN there is the need to survive in the real world and to not do unnecessary things to call attention to ourselves as an easy target for bigotry. It is always going to be a balancing act that requires personal judgment/discernment and really varies depending of our particular environment and circumstances.

@MikeInBatonRouge Sounding like a Yankee in the deep south limits my rights.

One of my personal favorite examples of snarky holier-than-though judgmentalness is when someone I've just disagreed with on some point tells me they'll pray for me. Isn't that just precious! And very Southern.

@MikeInBatonRouge "Anti-theist - actively opposes religion and belief in God(s)" I understand the condescension you describe. On the other side, I have an 84-year-old neighbor who is alive because she prays. Her name is Miss. Lilly. We have a very good relationship despite her attempts to get me to pray. I cannot be anti-theist because of her. Her faith in God IS her support system and I respect that. I get angry when someone says they will pray for me.

@Omots Exactly. Someone's personal prayer life is their own business, and I honestly don't begrudge anyone that. But when they feel the need to say to me that they will pray for me, that is not from genuine concern. That's a statement of judgment, that i "obviously need some prayer" because I'm such a mess. I rather suspect that people saying that don't even actually pray for me; rather, they just want to make a little condescending dig at me. I always reply forcefully to comments like that. I want them to realize those comments will cost THEM something, in terms of embarrassment.

@MikeInBatonRouge And I let it go. I do not know which is the right way to go here. Someone I know told me that I needed to get on my knees and pray. That did get me angry. We don't talk anymore. We have conversations where he would say something like; "I know you don't believe in God, but..." That statement bothered me. Some of the expressions are said out of how they were raised, and they are just automatic. I avoid people. I do not like to face...I am going to think about this.

@MikeInBatonRouge One thing I know I have to work on is the desire to be invisible. That is what I see you challenging me to change.

@Omots Good. That visibility challenge is something I still work on and in a forum like this I probably sound like a strident asshole at times, but I am much more diplomatic in real life. Nevertheless, I was overly accommodating of insensitive privileged Christians for so much of my life, I feel ready to say "fuck it" to that nonsense.
My own father is probably by biggest remaining irritant in terms of preachy Christian proselytizers. I have becomes simply brutally honest with him. I never attack him, but I aggressively respond to his insensitive comments by telling him exactly what I think and why.

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