Read "Stranger in a Strange Land" as a kid. Tried to reread it last year and realized it was very misogynistic, which I didn't notice as a boy of 15. I didn't finish it. I don't remember that in a lot of Heinlein's other work but haven't looked since I was a teen. I seem to remember Friday being feminist, but I may be misremembering.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I read Stranger at age 14 and read everything he ever wrote after. Yes he was mysoginist but at 14 in 1972 everything was. He led me to all the great sci-fi thereafter. Spent my minimal part-time job money on paperback books if library didn't have what I wanted. I was not treated well in HS except by teachers and counselors. They kept me from suicide. There was plenty to read for years to come. I also started yoga and meditation at that age.
Kimbastet
Level 4
Apr 2, 2019
1
My experience was similar.
I just re-read it last fall.
Don’t judge by today’s standards. Remember that rapes back then went largely unreported, to family, police, or on the news, so Heinlein likely had skewed views of it.
As for his characters, as in real life, they are often contradictory: strong women who demure to male “heros”, female role models who love promiscuous sex, and strong men who need female attention and approval.
Yeah. Like the rest of us.
Dangrenade
Level 6
Mar 26, 2019
0
I would hope that rape was considered wrong and not the fault of the woman even back then. And that's just one quote: "Nine out of ten times when a woman is raped it's actually her fault." (Jill Boardman). All the women in Stranger demure to the men throughout the book. I can think of multiple examples of strong women in fiction long before that. I was a big Heinlein fan (and I guess I still am), but in my reading as a critical adult I found Stranger distasteful.
Sorry, I didn't see any strong women. And rape being under reported is not an excuse. That would imply that only the most extreme incidents we're reported, which undermines the argument. I love Heinlein and maybe, in his attempt to shake up the mores of the times he didn't realize it - pushing the sex is good anti Puritan message. But I can't imagine any reading of Stranger that's not misogynistic.
You are making the mistake of judging a work written over 50 years ago by modern standards.
ldheinz
Level 7
Mar 26, 2019
1
Not at all. I would hope that rape was considered wrong and not the fault of the woman even back then. And that's just one quote: "Nine out of ten times when a woman is raped it's actually her fault." (Jill Boardman). All the women in Stranger demure to the men throughout the book. I can think of multiple examples of strong women in fiction long before that. Have you actually read it lately? I was a big Heinlein fan (and I guess I still am), but in my reading as a critical adult I found Stranger distasteful.
Nothing you said contradicts what I said.
I am not quite sure I agree with you. I think Heinlein celebrated "femininity," in his own way. His novels often feature very strong, smart and independent women and his male characters are often more bumbling and inept compared to the female characters. Yes, his novels also cater to the male fantasies in that these awesome women are also in "love" with these bumbling male characters, but I don't remember them being subservient in the true sense. The female characters will often use the idea of femininity or the hint of subservience to control their bumbling male counterparts, for the greater good. So... it was, in some sense, subversively feminist.....
But yeah, Heinlein does not fit the mold of the modern leftwing ideology. That is not to say that the modern leftwing ideology is wrong or less valuable than the ideals of his world. Heinlein had pretty right wing (or at least libertarian) political views that conflicted a lot with the hippie following of the time...
AtheistReader
Level 7
Mar 25, 2019
2
Have you read Stranger lately? Jill Boardman says "Nine times out of ten when a girl gets raped it is her fault". And all the women demure to all the men.
I do remember strong women in some of his works, but Stranger is horrible.
@towkneed No. I must confess I have not. I don't remember Jill Boardman saying that. I must have blocked it out. I can try to make excuses for one of my favorite authors, but I won't, and you make a valid, and convincing, point.
@towkneed But I also remember that in his books, the characters are not static. They change over time. In one of his short stories, a starry-eyed subservient woman becomes one of the leaders of a revolution. So... yeah. I think his work should be judged in totality, not simply one quote.
@KenChang I love Heinlein. Not trying to judge all his work. But I just found Stranger very misogynistic, which I didn't realize when I read it as a kid
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