Every day another thrill! ?

Maybe!

Our only hope is that Corbyn opens his eyes and gets his party to push for a second referendum.

@OwlInASack Agree, Cameron and Co. have a lot to answer for.

@OwlInASack, @Moravian I’m afraid I have no expectations of that happening.

The Brexit Referendum was idiocy of the highest order. I’m moving over the border to the Republic of Ireland as soon as I can get an Irish Passport.

@Marionville join the queue

@Moravian He has now "come out".

Yip! ?

I just posted this as a reply to Jeni comment below but it is worth repeating. Many years ago, don't ask me where, I remember reading a very convincing paper on political theory which made the case that in any representative parliamentary democracy you will always end up with a two party system, with both parties at the polar extremes and no middle. If that is true then if new centre parties succeed they then drift to the wings and squeeze out an old party and you are back to square one again.

@Fernapple Sounds about right but although I have no love for Tony Blair he did manage to keep a left of centre party together for a few years. Or were the neo-cons ?. I'm not sure.

@OwlInASack so they were neo -cons then

I agree...I really like her.

They are reporting that there are quite a few others on the brink of defecting too....even cabinet ministers.

It'll only take one more MP to join and the Independent Group would be bigger than the LibDems. I think, with Labour and the Tories so close in the polls and the Tories' majority now down to just eight, it's more likely they'll both want to try to court the Group in the hope of gaining support for policies rather than crush them - especially if, as Umunna has suggested, it becomes a registered party by the end of the year.

@Jnei Yes that's what happens, it happened to the social democrats, they got lured into deals then lost their momentum, and then got squashed.

@Fernapple Those were very different times. The LibDems lost a great deal of their support when they joined forces with the Tories and, at that time, we didn't have Brexit hanging over us. With so many MPs and a large percentage of the public expressing very serious concerns about our departure, a new pro-EU party could have more momentum than the LibDems have had for many years.

@Jnei Perhaps, but many years ago, don't ask me where, I remember reading a very convincing paper on political theory, which made the case that, in any representative parliamentary democracy you will always end up with a two party system. With both parties at the polar extremes and no middle. If that is true then if new centre parties succeed they then drift to the wings and squeeze out an old party and you are back to square one again.

@Fernapple I think that's largely true, but new parties do appear from time to time and every once in a while one of them gets a foothold and grows big. People do seem to be yearning for that and perhaps have been since the expenses scandal, which is likely to be part of why so many voters fell for a bunch of self-serving reactionaries like UKIP. We are a fairly centrist nation; with Labour having drifted more left-of-centre than it has been in many years and the Tories moving the other way, maybe this is going to prove to be one of those times.

@Jnei Could be. I have always been in the centre roughly, and think that as most people naturally sit there on the bell curve, then it is a sad failing that most people can not be represented. Having said that in many ways I do not feel that I fit on the political spectrum, having views that belong to all three positions, and in case that sounds pompus, then I will add that I think that is the case for most people, because it is not possible to both have a conscience and fit on the political spectrum. One of the sadest things about politics therefore is that to take part, you must either be without any humanity or first give up your conscience.