Thanks for the vote of confidence in middle-aged men.

@Red_Cat I'm not backing down on that. Look at any major decision-making group.

@CeliaVL I also sometimes generalise, but try to remember that many great people were outsiders in their time.

Minor correction: Theresa Mayhem was an example of a terrible negotiator trying to do what a good negotiator would struggle to look like they'd succeeded at doing. If she were a good negotiator, she wouldn't have gotten much farther, but she went in with the attitude of "they need us more than we need them and I just have to be tough with them," then Corbyn accomplished more in one day by going in saying, "sorry about her... I know this isn't what any of us wanted, but how can we make the best of it?"

@Jalnor I disagree...she was not negotiating singe handed, she had a team of negotiators...these same civil servants and ministers who we are told will be able to forge fantastic deals around the world after Brexit! I believe the EU when they say that Britain negotiated hard and that this is the best deal that is available. A negotiation is a two way deal...and we were always going to be the weaker side, after all we are the ones wanting to leave, it wasn’t the EU who blocked us leaving with a reasonable deal, it was the Brexiteers in her own party aided and abetted by the DUP. Corbyn has been irrelevant in any of this, he has sat on the fence and not really committed to any policy to leave or stay. With the Tories in complete disarray Labour should be miles ahead in the opinion polls...but they are not. There is complete disaffection with both major parties at present which is allowing Farage and his lot to gain momentum....nobody will win if he gains power!

Yeah... I'm not too impressed with most of her negotiators either - like the guy that stepped down saying "who knew Calais was so important to our trade?" They're a bunch of bumbling egomaniacal money-suckers. You're quite right about who's at fault, I just think it was quite telling that Corbyn had one meeting with the EU after Mayhem's deal was rejected the first time and all of the EU leaders were like, "yeah, he's a good guy, we'd have much preferred to have been talking to him and the actual qualified lawyer he appointed as shadow brexit secretary instead of that shower of morons."
I still maintain that we should be having another referendum that includes the option "admit the UK was on drugs and cancel article 50"
But I am indeed annoyed at Corbyn for not coming out in support of the massively popular opinion among his party supporters. He's been getting "advised" on how to politician so much that he's forgotten it was him taking a stand for his principles that got him the leadership in the first place and only that will get him into number 10.

I think ordinary people have plenty invested in the EU as well. It was always about unifying Europe to stop all the killing. Trade is the obvious way to get closer more quickly, but trade was not what motivated the architects of a united Europe. I, for one would be happy to see closer political ties, even a European State, which could grow very slowly while its members maintained local and cultural identities.

@Red_Cat I agree. But will the EU allow the UK to stop brexit or return later.

@Sofabeast Dunno. The present EU hierarchy has made clear that the UK, if having left, changed its mind, we would be welcome to re-apply for membership at a later date. Perhaps a different generation of UK politicians and voters will do that thing. Time will tell.

@Red_Cat I hope so. I really like being a European.

@Sofabeast Me too. And our great cities are European cities in their diversity and tendency to be outward-looking.