The Proud Boys thrive on hate? Some of their former members hoped for violence? Something tells me you haven't even tried to understand them. Read or watch one interview with their founder, Gavin McInnes. The point of the group was to perform the peacekeeping duty that police forces like Portland's have ignored. In other words, they saw the several occasions Antifa caused violence without repercussions, especially in Portland, and decided to try to bring civility back to the public square. Or at least, that's how they see it.

To be fair to Antifa, they also believe they are doing the right thing. They think they are punching Nazis etc. However, they have attacked minority journalists like Andy Ngo. They have hit people in the head with a bike lock for talking. They riot outside speaking events so that anyone who doesn't toe their party line is incapable of speaking privately to people who want to hear them. There's a big difference between responding to speech with violence and hoping that any asshole who tries to start violence tries to start it with you because you know how to deal with it.

I'm glad you acknowledged that groups can say they're for one thing when their actions prove otherwise. Antifa is full of misguided, under informed youths who have been indoctrinated by those who are meant to teach them rationality. Otherwise, they'd learn what tactics Nazis and Fascists historically used to take power, what their ideologies were, etc. so they'd know how to spot and stop them. If they did so, they'd realize that Antifa does all the same things. Support for socialism? Check. Collective identity obsession? Check. Demonizing a particular demographic to unite your forces? Check. Wearing a uniform? Check. Violent reaction to disagreement? Check. I could go on. I could tell you how Giovanni Gentile, the founder of fascism, was also a Marxist. That seems unproductive.

As to Trump himself, let's not pretend the business Democrat who plagiarized Bill Clinton ("We are a nation of immigrants, but we are also a nation of laws" ) and hired a woman to run his campaign after marrying an immigrant is really some far right ethno nationalist. His Twitter is a reality show: drama without substance blown out of proportion for the sake of keeping people's attention.

One thing I think you got right though: it's not about conservative or liberal, right or left, it's about authoritarians versus libertarians. It's about individualists who judge people on the content of their character versus collectivists who judge people by the color of their skin (people who say it's racist/evil to even say that it's okay to be white, because "all white people are racist" ). It's about those who want you to be able to make your own choices versus those who want the government to run your life (totalitarianism). To be clear, both "left" and "right" promote such tyranny to varying degrees: leftists want everything regulated and provided by the government because adults can't be trusted to spend their own money or think their own thoughts; the extreme right wants the government in your bedroom because adults can't be trusted to protect their racial purity or otherwise decide on a partner. Leftists want you to work in a government office or union; right wingers want you to work in government military or enforcement. Neither truly wants you to be free.

You're right....of course...

But...

Good luck with getting your sentiments heard....

The growth of government as a result of corporate profits has been clear...and that's the root of Fascism

What we need is some famous folk...perhaps a hollywood mogul...or even a political figure...someone well known - to come out in support of Antifa.

They need to cut any alleged antifa members who're just out to break stuff and fight.

The "Black Panthers" got the same rough start...and decades later they're still considered "fringe"...

Never heard much about "Proud Boys"... Interesting video here..

I'll never understand so much hatred.