Should you be fully able to defend your atheism/ agnosticism ?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 13, 2018:

I found interesting that you commented that gods are man made. That is my favorite topic and subject for study.

Level 5 - first perk

Leutrelle comments on Jan 13, 2018:

I appreciate the community guidelines and believe that healthy discourse benefits everyone. One reason I left FaceBook was name calling and hateful visceral comments. I see it here but it is a minority, and nobody or site is perfect. So I want to give shout out to the year 2018 an civil dialogue.

Have you ever participated in Valentine's Day?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 13, 2018:

I think Valentine's day was invented by a capitalist. Come to think of it all of the major holidays seem to cause the masses to spend money.

Do you/How do you celebrate the solstices & equinoxes?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 13, 2018:

I like to plant garden seeds after the first full moon in May, but now that I live in an elevation of a little over 5000 feet, I am going to have to rethink my tradition.

My significant other passed away.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 13, 2018:

Your account of your love one's suffering brought tears to my eyes. The world needs more people like you. I am frustrated with the government interfering with prescription pain meds. If anyone ever needed them it was your significant other. I am sorry for your anguish as you loyally stood by watching him suffer. Wishing all the best for your future.

Atheist, unfortunately, is a word with extreme negative connotations for many people, try saying you...

Leutrelle comments on Jan 13, 2018:

I am agnostic, and have been since leaving the church 20++ years ago. My friends mostly church folk had a hard time understanding, but the garden variety: "I am christian through inoculation cause I was born America" had a hard time with agnostic. I would really rather people know me as a good human.

Is evolution a fact or still just a theory.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 13, 2018:

I am agnostic and I wish I could say evolution was a matter of fact. Science can trace us from fish, to amphibians, to land mammals, to primates, but at least I haven't heard that they have found the definitive missing link. I don't have another plausible explanation, but still will struggle saying evolution is fact. In some ways it makes me feel inadequate as an agnostic, but I am true to my self.

A couple were having lunch with an alien couple they discussed about doing partner swap for the ...

Leutrelle comments on Jan 13, 2018:

A sense of humor is like medicine. Its good smile:)

Things are getting difficult for me in my current relationship.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 13, 2018:

I feel for you. The only way it can is if both of you can respect each others personal perspective. It is rare for polar opposites to be able resolve their issues. If you are an anti-theist then I would think the least you could work with is a solid agnostic, and ideally an anti-theist. I am agnostic, and I think it would be hard to be in a relation with an anti-theist. Not impossible, but difficult. Hope the best for you

What type of death do you most fear?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 12, 2018:

Any death that doesn't come when I am sleeping.

Firearms are the Worst Thing to Happen to Humanity.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 12, 2018:

Hitler would disagree. He started with fire arms, but felt that was to slow, and developed the gas chamber. The terrorist seem to prefer a well placed bomb, or poison gas, or weaponized biological or viral attack or air planes. Statistics indicate that car kills more people accidentally than the gun. If your a thug a bat works well, and a knife. Responsible people don't kill even if they have gun, and if by chance they do it is to preserve life by self defense.

Struggle is Progress.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 12, 2018:

I have say that is a great narrative. While I was reading, aloud I might add, I felt myself slip into the role of a character in a movie. My voice even changed to fit the part. I imagined that I was traveling through the galaxy looking out the window of my marauder in deep space wondering how this all came to be, and what knowledge I might discover at any moment, and I was using your words. Awe and mystery consumed my conscious mind, and yet I was keenly aware of my subconscious, and time slowed and I could see the space between the particles as they strugled to contain the sub-particals that were trying to break away. Then some would collide and form a larger particle, and that larger particle collided and got busted in two, but collided with a much larger particle, and at some point it would form something that could named; something that may be life; something that could power this vessel, and perhaps something that was conscious. DreadlySmart I love your work

A lesson in humility

Leutrelle comments on Jan 12, 2018:

I have that problem with booze. I will go for a year or two W/O a drop, and not really missing it, and I"ll be dammed if at some get together if I don't convince my self to have a couple drinks. That really isn't the problem. It gets bad because I tell myself the next day or so "that wasn't so bad so maybe I can drink". This destructive thinking goes on and on, and pretty soon I am back to being a mostly friendly Drunk. I won't go to AA because it is like another religion, and I can quit. This time I am 2 months sober and don't miss it a bit, but I have to say this agnostic group helps. Thus dialog helps keep me sane. I am resolutely saying to myself, that I quit drinking for good. I am not going to let myself fool me again. I can't drink because I don't know how. Was it good for you? cause it was good for me:)

Ancient aliens.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 12, 2018:

I am with you Michael. I view Ancient Aliens for entertainment value. Everybody has to make living right:) I like watching the professionals show a practical method on how they believe the ancients drilled holes in stone or moved large stone, and sawed stone and this feeds my intellectual interest (its all good:)). Thanks for sharing this. It is put together in a nice package. I have seen a lot of the footage on various programs, but it is really nice to have it all together. I would like to state that it is hard not to believe that there is intelligent life somewhere else in this vast universe. Do you agree?

Artificial versus Natural: is there a difference?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 12, 2018:

You have gift. I have made that argument about GMO's.

Podcast 112 — The Intellectual Dark Web

Leutrelle comments on Jan 11, 2018:

I never heard of Sam Harris, but I save the link and definitely will be listening in the future. It is very civil and informative dialog. Thanks for sharing.

There are many problems that the Human Race are facing today.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 11, 2018:

In my birth year of 1952, the population was slightly over 2.6 billion, and today the the population is 7.5 billion. The I used to watch TV, and particularly on the subject of energy, or food the answer was always we have to produce MORE. So science develops GMO foods, and solar energy. Oceans are being deleted of marine life because the population demands MORE, the oceans are polluted with oil spills, because the population demands MORE. The population has more than doubled in my life time! I am pretty sure that is unprecedented. The 900 pound gorilla in the room is OVER POPULATION. Growing up in the Bay area Ca. I somehow picked up on an idea of Zero population growth (probably happened on an acid trip). Fundamentally that means: have only one child to replace your self. We are living out side of the natural laws. We have modern medicine which has weakened us overall mainly because of antibiotics. Our food we must carefully choose because it is not all healthy. Famers plant GMO food because even though the seed costs more the yields are much higher, and that reflects in the prophet margin. Food is abundant for most so the level of starvation is down. The bottom line is, we don't die at the same rate that the other species do. We have no natural predators, other than man on man, or the occasional shark attack:) We can store food for the lean times. We have shelter to protect us, and reservoirs to store water. Can you imagine if there were 7 billion elephants? Even W/O man's greed there could never be 7 billion elephants. There just isn't enough habitat to support them. Nature keeps balance on all creators but man. However I believe that someday nature might turn us. We must regulate the birth rate, and the whole human race must work TOGETHER, so down with WAR, and up with COOPERATION. The solution: not easy (thats an understatement) but possible. The collective conscience must come together and mandate a program to limit population growth. Education is the first tool. A required class: grade 1 through college: "How to live WELL on the planet earth." I am not a teacher but I am sure they would be more than capable of developing the curriculum for all the different cultures of the world. We must allocate WAR $ to especially fund the poor areas to provide sex education, contraception in its various forms, and women's health care. Now that I have written this I realize how difficult it will be to implement this, but every movement starts with an idea. Cautiously optimistic, but you first have to "imagine the world with no religion".

Pffftttt.... there aren't enough sarcastic people here.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 11, 2018:

Sarcasm is not my favorite in social discourse, but this a large group with many different personalities, so it is something that is to be expected. I just don't personalize comments that could be interpreted as offensive. In interpersonal communication it is much easier to read, give feed back, and dialog, and the result hopefully is mutual understanding. Sarcasm is a art, and depends on the person's sarcasm as whether or not it is well received.

The unconscionable lack of integrity in media

Leutrelle comments on Jan 9, 2018:

This might seem simplistic, but I say start streaming, and get rid of the tv channels. This would hit them the hardest if enough people would do it. Since I shut off the dish I have shed a lot of my anger.

Hello, First I need to let folks know that I am a seminary student at a post-modern ...

Leutrelle comments on Jan 9, 2018:

Welcome. I too was in seminary once a long time ago. I hope that we can be of help to you as you develop new ideas.

Hello folks! I'm new here.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 9, 2018:

I gave up on FaceBook to for many reasons.

I want to know what you think on the subject of Global Warming?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 9, 2018:

I just wanted to thank all of you for thoughtful comments.

I have recently joined this agnostic/atheists group.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 8, 2018:

Thank to all of you for the warm welcome.

Will you help me settle this debate with my friend: can a Christian be a freethinker?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 8, 2018:

I have known very dedicated Christians that believed in evolution, so they were outside main stream Christian doctrine. Some were prochoice. I thought of them as free thinkers. I think it is wrong to view all of them in the same light. I have seen secular critical thinking in religious people, and their attraction to religion was to sit in the light of the stained glass and meditate. All of them are not Zealots. I am pretty sure that most of them would not die for their faith.

Some of us are a little rough around the edges.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 8, 2018:

I have read many of your comments, and yes you don't hold back. I cuss as a second language. My grandparents cussed. Me and cousins practiced cussing until it was an art form. It was a rite of passage to be able to cuss around the adults. I guess I am saying I don't take it personal.

Home | The Critical Thinker Academy

Leutrelle comments on Jan 8, 2018:

As far as My experience goes with personal, and my kids education thru 12 - I can't see any evidence to challenge what they read or are taught. I took a logic course many years ago, and it is still helpful in navigating through media and discussion of ideas to this day. Most would say you can't believe anything you hear or read, but I mostly end up hearing the news opinions from their favorite news resource. My Niseis are highly educated, but they don't challenge anything that is liberal.

Does it bother you when people say they will pray for you?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 8, 2018:

Yes it does! I don't want to start a debate, so I usually feel awkward, and just grin and bear it. I like what you said, but if I said it would probably just piss somebody off:) In saying I in no way mean I would rather be pissed on....Am I????

How do you feel about people saying "I'm proud of my heritage", "I'm proud of being British", etc.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 7, 2018:

My wife and I are going to get tested for our genetic markers to find in generic sense of who our extended kin are. I know I am part Cherokee, and who knows what European lineage I have, and my wife is half German. I think I might be a tiny bit proud of that DNA.

A math geeks distance from jesus. How far have we come in 2018 years.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 7, 2018:

I don't what that number is, but it is super massive. I can not remember much math, isn't there a way to make it to the power of?

Am I the only one that isn’t saddened by my life coming to a complete end after death?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 7, 2018:

Epicurus an ancient secular Greek Philosopher wrote: Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come we no longer exist One of a few translations

Well I've only just begun on this wonderful site and the folk on here seem like the right stuff to ...

Leutrelle comments on Jan 7, 2018:

Well wolfbat I am new too, and I feel pretty much like you:)

I have noticed a significant positive correlation between the religious (beliefs not supported by ...

Leutrelle comments on Jan 7, 2018:

I am agnostic, and I think Trump is about as good as most. Politician's are mostly corrupt liars that will do just about anything to get elected. Then lie and self serve, and lie some more, and make more money. On the other hand politicians albeit it is a tough job, but they fought hard to get it, so go figure on that. I just can't see through good vs. Evil, right or wrong paradigm any more. It's just different shades of the same color. Whats gets me most is the only people who prophet in these ventures are the news media, and they laugh all the way to the bank as they polarize and con us! This information saturation is a mean machine....

@admin.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 7, 2018:

Thanks I really thought I had done some computer thing wrong.

I wish the people on this site would stop being so political.

Leutrelle comments on Jan 7, 2018:

I whole hearted agree. Politics is like some kinda of religion when ever it is discussed.

Your thoughts on gun ownership?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 7, 2018:

I can see that I am a minority. First off to own an automatic fire arm you have to be vetted by the ATF which is a long process and costs at least 200$ for the stamp. Secondly before buying the stamp one must first buy the automatic fire arm which there is a VERY limited supply, and were made I believe pre-1984. The auto weapon is very expensive, about 10K to 25K and perhaps more, and the money has to be given to a gun store who has a license to sell that type of weapon and then holds the weapon while you start the process of obtaining the stamp from the ATF. I don't have that kind of money to throw around, so I don't have one, but I wish I did:). My son had the opportunity to shoot a military AR M16, and it sounded like it would be a fun target gun. I strongly agree with you that owners should be TRAINED, and CERTIFIED, and that they are qualified for ALL gun ownership! I only say this because many have never been around a gun, and they could be extremely dangerous in unqualified HANDS. I guess that is all I have for now.

Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 6, 2018:

I tend to agree with you Draco. It is rare to have an intelligent conversation with a "theist"(not that they are unintelligent). It's similar to politics which often times is just another belief system. In my experience more often than not, a simple thread of thought, can escalate and become a verbal war. I don't know about the rest of you, but blood my pressure doesn't need that kind of stimulation. Someone mentioned "echo chamber" which, by the way is a valid point, and I don't want that either. I think it is like oil and water; they just don't mix well.

Boyfriend is agnostic, I'm an atheist. How to cope with disagreements?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 6, 2018:

Your Significant Other is more like a Diest. It sounds like does believe in god (little "g"), but he doesn't understand much else. I may be over simplifying this, but for me an agnostic can not prove god is, and an atheist can not prove god isn't.

“The banana is the atheists nightmare "

Leutrelle comments on Jan 6, 2018:

This definitely made my day:)

Is this life all there is?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 6, 2018:

This life has been quite a ride. From born again to agnostic. 20 plus years with no belief, 20 plus years as a christian, and 20 plus years as an agnostic. It was a humbling experience to finally doubt the existence of god, but with much reading, critical thinking, and rational thought I got to a comfort zone. I find myself indulged in thought and study of the origin of man, ancient history, and even thinking past Darwin. If I look, there is enough to keep my mind satisfied, by thinking outside of main stream. It is enough to ponder just how old the human race is, and just how smart our ancestors were. It is mesmerizing to see and walk among the Mayan Pyramids, and look in awe at films and pictures of the many megalithic cultures. Most all of these structures could not be reproduced in this modern world, and that gives me pause. Perhaps we are not the pinnacle of man kind, maybe we are just one of many ebbs in human history. It is my point of view that this life lived, is of great value, and privilege. And if that is all there is, then perhaps, it is enough.

Are "Transformational Experiences" Important to Non-Religious People?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 6, 2018:

For me being self aware of my transformation is spiritual. My mother just passed at the age of 91. She was not religious until the last few years, and then she wanted to go be with dad in heaven. I think she could have been a centenarian, but she lost the will to live, and put her hopes in an after life. I do not know if there is personal life beyond this physical plane. I hope there is, but I have a renewed sense to make this life count! I want to be the best husband, father, and human that I can be. I want to continue to grow in understanding the origin of man, and the many cultures on this planet. I want understand and embrace new perspectives of the open mind. I am 65, and find myself knowing less for the pond of gnosis is much deeper than I imagined. I am excited to be on this journey of the self-aware. We are told very little of history, anthropology, or astrology in school or main stream media. And we can not socially evolve if we don't know practical history. We as the people of this planet continue to make the same mistakes. Like I said the pond is deep, and I have just got my toes wet. By the way it is my opinion that much of religion purposely kept us in the dark. In fact perhaps with all of the information that is available in this modern world the masses are living through another "Dark Age". I don't want to give politicians a break, for they seem to want lead us into the Dark. For now, this is enough said:)

Do you ever miss the religious life?

Leutrelle comments on Jan 6, 2018:

I was a college educated Pastor. I found that the leadership was adversarial, hypocritical, manipulative, liars, and even predatory. They remind me of the politicians. Many of the people albeit misguided were genuinely good folk. Needless to say after the third church I lost my faith, and after many years I like some, miss the community. But make no mistake with what I write; I could not bring myself to walk through a church door! I just do my best to be a good neighbor. I just joined this site and I think I have found a new community:)