I caught my dad off guard one day.

He said, "There are hundreds of thousands of pages of laws in Washington and the government is still writing more laws. God made 10 laws in less than 150 words and didn't leave anything out."

I replied, "I don't need 150 words."

I mean really, telling right from wrong isn't particularly difficult.

I just respond, "If you have to outsource your morals, I'm not sure you're ready to be having this conversation."

“Morality is doing what's right regardless of what you're told. Obedience (religion) is doing what you're told regardless of what is right.” ~H. L. MENCKEN

I usually respond that some people don't need someone to tell them between right and wrong, they can deduct it from the world around them without needing guidance. When then asked "but what keeps them from doing wrong without the fear of punishment?" I respond, "Good character."

If one needs morals to treat people right, they are just a sociopath on a leash

That's because if they acknowledge that one doesn't need religion to be 'moral', then no one really needs religion. They can't handle that. It screws with everything they've ever believed.

I've recently been talking to Wiccan. Your comment reminded me of conversation about how the Christian Church demonized, murdered and forcibly converted millions of "pagans", e.g., Indians in the Americas, Germanic Tribes, Britons, Scotts, Franks, African societies, etc.. . Moral codes that insist of murder and conversion are not moral codes.

I just tell them that my parents raised me right. That usually don't shut them up, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

No one "gets" their morality from religion either. As soon as you ask them why they don't stone gay people or their disobedient children to death, it should become clear to them that their own internal moral compass is what directs them and not their book.

Absolutely. If you don't know murder is wrong without someone telling you, there is a problem lol.

Really there is not much to me anymore, so I just let unless they are really looking for an answer.

I tell them that many cultures have existed without any concept of gods or spirits. They had moral codes and no god to issue morals to them. This being said they did not get their morals from their religion or church, so morality can not come from them. One can only come to the conclusion that moralitycomes from within.

There has never been a worse example of morality than those shown by religion.

The Legend of Hatuey

As later recorded by Spanish priest Bartolomé de las Casas, Hatuey showed the Cubans a basket full of gold and jewels. “Here is the God the Spaniards worship,” he said, “for these they fight and kill; for these they persecute us and that is why we have to throw them into the sea…

“They tell us, these tyrants, that they adore a God of peace and equality, and yet they usurp our land and make us their slaves. They speak to us of an immortal soul and of their eternal rewards and punishments, and yet they rob our belongings, seduce our women, violate our daughters. Incapable of matching us in valor, these cowards cover themselves with iron that our weapons cannot break…”

The Taínos of western and central Cuba could not believe the horrendous message brought by Hatuey, and few joined him.

Hatuey’s strategy against the Spaniards was to attack, guerilla fashion, and then disperse to the hills, where the Indians would regroup for the next attack. For about three months Hatuey’s tactics kept the Spaniards on the defensive, afraid to leave their fort at Baracoa.

Through a traitor, Velásquez was able to surround and capture Hatuey. On February 2, 1512, Hatuey was tied to a stake at the Spanish camp, where he was burned alive. Just before lighting the fire, a priest offered him spiritual comfort, showing him the cross and asking him to accept Jesus and go to heaven. “Are there people like you in heaven?” he asked. “There are many like me in heaven,” answered the priest. Hatuey answered that he wanted nothing to do with a God that would allow such cruelty to be unleashed in his name. [historyofcuba.com]

Common sense, an ounce of critical thought, and basic empathy is all you need to form rational and well substantiated morals. I don't need an old book or supernatural entity to tell me how not to be a dick. Those that need religion to remain moral only show us their true character, and that is a disturbing, saddening thought.

Morality precedes and is independent of gods and religion. Religion has done nothing but try to claim morality for itself without doing any of the leg work.

Morality doesn't come from religion. There are religious people who are not moral people. Morality is having a conscience, a inner knowledge of right and wrong and the will to do the right thing.

Most of what is claimed to be moral behavior, allegedly taught by theologians, is instinctive. We are born with a high morality and self-regulating potential that is damaged at the earliest possible time by 'religion' and culture spawned by it. Yes, I see culture as a product of theology rather than the other way around.

Animals better exemplify attributes of moral behavior and they have no notions about gods nor do they attend places of 'worship'.

Love your final point! Theological fanaticism makes everyone sick in different degrees and ways. The advent of aggressive, malignant Patriarchy about six thousand years ago has been making humanity sicker with each successive generation.

Hi,feel free to answer this . This theist won't answer why there is so many atrocities in the bible.Hi Keith,
The only way you can have a problem with the atrocities that you say are in the Bible, is if you accept that there's an absolute moral standard by which to hold them by. Otherwise you have no basis on which to call them atrocities.
It is not logical to hold the Bible and God to an absolute standard of morality that you don't believe exists.
And if you think morals evolved over long periods of time, you're assuming that the things that you think are absolutely right or wrong now, we're also absolutely right and wrong then. But according to what you think, the things that you think are atrocities back then, may have been totally acceptable, because those morals hadn't 'evolved' to what you think they should be. Again, you are holding God to an absolute standard that you and other Atheists don't believe in.
Like I've said before, it's obvious that there's an absolute moral standard in this universe, I don't even need to prove it because people demonstrate it every day, every time you watch the news or read a newspaper. You demonstrate it when you talk about good and evil, right and wrong, and when you talk about atrocities.
And the only reason there's an absolute moral standard in this universe is because of God. There's no way round it.
It's also not a logical argument to say that morals 'evolved' over long periods, but then accuse people or God for not living up to what you think morals are now, because like I said, it would have been 'moral' then because that was the accepted standard. What you are still doing is holding God and the people back then to your absolute moral standard, which you say doesn't exist.
This is not logical or reasonable Keith.
It is a delusion to continue saying that there's no absolute moral standard, but all the while holding God and other people to an absolute moral standard.
It's a different thing to say, "God, I know You're there, but I just don't understand why you allowed certain things to happen in the Bible, and I don't know why you let certain things happen today, but I'd like to understand."
It is not ok to say,
"God, I don't even believe in you, or your Bible, but I don't like what you did in the Bible and what you do today, it's evil. Oh, and by the way, I don't even believe there's evil!"

Hope you've had a good week Keith,
I've been house bound for over a week now with a flu virus, which I'm over the worse of now.

Morality is only a codification of the rules for our tribe. There is no fixed set of moral rules. Human sacrifice and even cannibalism are morally correct in some places. All animals, and even plants, have developed ways to protect their own; we are no different than the beasts and the birds.

Amen to that..

Right! Everyone has a moral code of some kind, whether it's good or bad.