You are aware that some sexual predators do wear condoms, right? As in, no DNA?

@Bendog Yes, BUT scientific evidence, DNA, etc, etc, are NOT emotion based, is that not so?

And I'm sure you are also aware that GHB and rohypnol are tasteless, odorless, and leave the victim with no memory? And that they are undetectable in the urine and blood the next day? You can capitalize the word fact all you like, but evidence is often not as plentiful as you suggest.

@Emerald Yes, but condoms ONLY stop the sperm from being released and detected later, sexual intercourse also causes the shedding of skin cells, pubic hairs and other bodily materials from the Rapist or were you unaware of those proven medical and forensic facts?

@Emerald Drugs such as you mentioned are somewhat undetectable after a period of 12 to 24 hours however forensic experts do search for far more evidence than just those few things in case you are unaware.

@Triphid yes and then the rapist merely says it was consensual and those things mean nothing.

I agree. Most Western European countries have a max of 20 years. We need to focus on how to rehabilitate them. And better yet, prevent them from happening! In the US our judicial system is so fucked up. I know about half a dozen people that have been to prison (not jail). All except for one has turned out WORSE than when they went in.

I am against the death penalty, and life for rape is harsh. You can murder someone and get 20 years, if you're rich, 7 and out in 3. I'm not saying rape isn't terrible... But come on. I think making it illegal for private organizations to run prisons would be a start. They are paid to have more criminals, why on earth would they want to reform them?

For non violent, non pedophile, and maybe less violent crimes... A reduction of sentence guaranteed if you earn a degree, but a stipulation of using a better job to pay restitution to the victim. A four year degree would be half restitution. I'm spitballing here, but I'm sure someone could come up with a better idea

CAN rapists be rehabilitated? Someone just posted yesterday about being raped by a released sex offender. If they pose a risk to society, keep them where they can do no harm.

Sadly, CeliaVL, loke with Xtians, etc, "you can lead an offender to reason but you CANNOT make them think."

Some offenders are so ' stuck' in their ways and mental processes that no manner of persuasion/ re-education can effect a change and hence they will always remain a danger to society.

@Zster I think the answer is 'yes' to both bits of your question. A man who commits a rape can spend the rest of his life regretting it and be rehabilitated, but anyone who is a genuine danger to other people on a long-term basis should be kept off the streets, whether he is a rapist, or violent in any other way.

@Triphid I agree - anyone who is a danger should be kept out of society. That doesn't mean they should be treated inhumanely, though. Their punishment is being segregated from the rest of the world. Some offenders can be rehabilitated. This has been experimentally proven. Unfortunately some countries are more inclined to punish than rehabilitate and prevent further crime.

@Triphid, @Bendog We need to spend a lot more money on treatment for mental health problems, education and training for future jobs, etc., in order to answer your question.

So you're suggesting rapists can be rehabilitated?

@Bendog celiavl

@CeliaVL Sadly though, many of these ' rehabilitated' offenders often return to their ' old ways' at some time or another though there are those that do ' mend their ways' permanently.
As a survivor of rape from almost 55 years ago, I have little sympathy for rapists and the ' special' treatment they receive by the Justice Systems when they are incarcerated, i.e. Special Segregation from the General Prison Population, etc.
Prison life for most offenders is NOT one of hardships, they have television, movies, education and exercise facilities, free medical services, good nutritious meals, visitors and certain rights, most of these are things that their victims have had taken, brutally away from them and some will never get to enjoy since they may have been MURDERED and those left behind are their friends and relatives, etc, who must try to live with that emptiness these CRIMINALS have forced upon them whilst those very same CRIMINALS are incarcerated and kept safe, secure and healthy at the expense of everyone else.
Imprisonment SHOULD NOT be something where a CRIMINAL gets better treatment than the ordinary, average citizen receives. The Criminal SHOULD get the basics of needs, yes, try to rehabilitate them where possible, BUT make them understand as well that what they have is TOTALLY unacceptable to decent society and THEY must endure the hardships and tribulations due to them.

@Triphid I think your attitude to prison and its purpose, depends very much which country you live in. if you live in the USA where many people seem to think that prison should be as severe a punishment as possible, then of course your attitude will be different from, for example, the Netherlands, where they are closing down prisons because they don't need them, and they have a strong leaning towards education and rehabilitation. If people in prison have a better life and better conditions than people outside, then that is an indictment of the way society is organised, not a criticism of the prison system.

^^This

@Bendog that's a shorthand way of saying "I agree with what was posted above.". In this case, it applies to both @indirect76 's comment and your reply to him, so I felt no need to specify a differential between them. In other words, "I agree with both of you."

@Bendog DWAI! ("Don't worry about it!" )

Or just remove all the organ with bleach

No, chemical castration us not an answer, as men don't need functional genitals to violate women. Please remember that Brock Turner was too drunk to get an erection, but he violated his victim all the same.

So a rapist takes what he wants, and the solution is to make him pay money for it ..... Sounds like forced prostution. They need to be locked up and castrated.

@Cutiebeauty That certainly is an option and one that looks to fit the crime. I think when you read my comment it's clear that I certainly do not condone forced prostitution. Looking at the financial punishment the intent is to shift the burden from the victim to the perpetrator. The rape victim already has to "pay" with all the pain of the crime. To lock up the criminal has a second cost that the victim takes part in carrying along with the rest of us - so the victim ends up paying twice. My preference is that the criminal is the one who has to pay. Sure - if we'd allow a person to remain free that can be viewed as tasteless - so I guess the next option is to consider a labor camp where earnings would go to support the victim - which could be done in a direct manor.

@Cutiebeauty Yes, surgically sterilize the male rapists plus use a permanent chemical implant that eradicates any trace of their libido/urges BUT only if it is proven beyond ANY doubt that it was Rape and along with the sterilization, etc, tattoo their foreheads with the word RAPIST in very large bright RED ink as well, especially for Child Molesters/Rapists.
But, what could be done with the female rapists, child molesters, of which there are quite a number btw, sterilization won't stop them alone. Would you support sterilization and chemical libido intervention for them as well?

@Stig I'm just saying when that victim gets a monthly check for being raped, it will feel like a payment for sex and will serve as a constant reminderof what she endured.

@Triphid why wouldn't I support the same punishment for women. In fact, they should be punished more for touching a child. Besides, you're a man, you can think of ways to punish a woman if she ever raped you.

@Cutiebeauty Yeah - what a pain it must be to live with. I don't know how to get around that.

@Cutiebeauty Er, excuse me BUT how exactly does one go about ' punishing' a female rapist when current ideology is that women DO NOT rape, but are the Raped?
How does a child get the Authorities to believe him/her that they were raped and molested by their own mother?

@Triphid ummm.. Excuse me, you're the one that said there are "quite a number btw ".

You're basically arguing with yourself here. Have a nice day ?

@Cutiebeauty Are you trying to ' duck' out of the question I asked or what?
I was NOT "arguing with myself" as you so kindly put it, I was offering up a topic for debate.

@Triphid to have a proper debate, one must take one side only and defend it. You are switching sides whenever it suits you. To me, that's an argument not a debate.

@Cutiebeauty OH, I'm so sorry that I do NOT follow your personal ideologies of debate/discussion, perhaps it is because here in Australia we tend to think of things quite differently to the ' American Way."
And, btw, I'm so bloody glad and Proud that we do because it keeps us Aussies from becoming yet another Pseudo-American Colony in my opinion.
So, please have a good one.

@Triphid Being raped by ones own family is horrible but in my understanding very common. The case of only men can be rapists depends on location - most advanced societies have seen cases of women rapists so the prosecutors and judges are aware of this. Unfortunate if one lives in one of the countries where this is not accepted type case by now.

The key is as always evidence. If one has access to a smart phone turning on the voice recording when the feared person is in the room is a good move.

@Triphid oh thank you for saying you're sorry.? I appreciate that. I'm so glad you understand now. Not many people on this site admit they're wrong.

@Cutiebeauty watch out not to replace God
Again like someone noted before, these are infinite punishments for a finite crime. I like most people here know very little about law and justice and we're just blabbing offering nonexpert opinion here. But what I do know is as a justice principle, infinite punishment for a finite crime is not justice. Now yes it is horrible, and deserves severe punishment and correction and when one is proven to have corrected and remorseful and paid dues to the victim (you can't ask that he/she be raped back and u can't ask the victim to take vengeance that's not justice. That's hammurabi or the wild west. There needs to be restitution in some form. That's a big debate. But I can say chemical castration for life for one offense seems like vengeance not correction. If I was raped by another idk say inmate, I'd want him to pay dearly and for a very long period, but I can heal, and if he's remorseful and has paid dearly, and true request for forgiveness from the victim, then forgiveness can help the victim heal. It's a painful two way street my friend.
I think a course on criminal justice is in order ;p or a complete major hahaha
And again, I have nothing but elementary knowledge in the field and I'm not the expert but I know a thing or two. It's just these arguments bring up memories of creationists arguing evolution "if we evolved from monkeys, how come there are monkeys bla bla" kinda of shit. We're in a post modern highly specialized society. I'm sure lots of law and justice majors role their eyes when they see us argue, or evolutionary biologists on evolution, or physicians on vaccines.... It's really horrible the antiscience and pseudoscientific thinking and dangerous. I just hope that the way we think about any issue is more rational and informed and calm and well thought. Peace out ???

@kng01 how much time did you waste typing all this nonsense... Lmao. You're a funny man.

@kng01 try reading your response out loud and think about it good and long, from the perspective of a woman, and you will see you are talking as though you ate the expert and that at the sand time you dismiss my position merely because I'm pregnant. Men is this thread said the same as me... Go tell them what they said doesn't matter cause their pregnant... Yes, I said you're a funny man.. I meant to say worse but didn't what to insult you like you insulted me here.

@Cutiebeauty no I wasn't replying to your opinion on rape as because you were being pregnant. I'm not dismissing your position because you're pregnant. That was a response to how much did you waste time on this? Like you meant there are more important things in life and you're right. Referring to the known change in perspective new parents take on life, the la vie en rose... As regards to the opinion on the justice system, yea I do think most responses are layman responses including mine. Some seek vengeance rather than justice and some seek a badge of being liberal. But none are weighted scientifically and expertly, like the tattooing and chemical castration as if that is gonna bring justice to anyone. Imagine how many innocent disenfranchised and minority people are gonna be branded like that left and right and 50 years from now, ppl are gonna be like Oops sorry.

I think having interacted with a person enough to know his position, doesn't require him/her to be very legal and journalistic in his words so that they aren't interpreted in the least logical way possible. Of course I wasn't being misogynistic and it was clear that I was referring to my time wasting habits

@Cutiebeauty If you're pregnancy happened without your consent or desire I'm truly sorry.

@kng01 You can't replace that which does not exist. So please don't tell a pregnant woman that she should not try to replace God. If the fine lady did not provide her consent we should all support her and her future baby.

@Stig lol that's one big misunderstanding I think shudnt be discussed further here. No no nothing of the sort. That spiraled really out of control. It was a friendly joke about wasting my time on a long post that turned sour and in an absolutely wrong direction.
The issue about replacing god is a very different point. It was about giving out infinite punishments to finite crimes, also known as hell, also known as a quality of the abrahamic god/those who created "him" which is something everyone on this site abhors, one of the main reason of which is his brutality.

Anyways this misunderstanding keeps on adding layers and layers of misunderstanding. I deleted the comment that spurred the fiery response mainly because it included some of my personal life which is obviously not welcome in such a misunderstood and mal represented exchange. Now everything is out of context

@kng01 Well ok. Then lets get the irrelevant content removed. Your personal content is surely still of value on this site.

@Stig nooo, that's not the case! I wasn't raped... My bf and I are having a baby, that's all. But thank you... ?

@Stig I did. And I'm sorry if @cutiebeauty would ever think I would make such a comment. And disappointed a bit as we've had many interactions previously. I was being an annoying brat by saying we're all just blabering about something we're not experts on and that can be interpreted as being condescending. But that's about as far as you can misinterpret a typed situation. The extra rest depends on one intentions and projections

That's a pretty disgusting thing to say.

Don't effect me, so I don't care.
Poor people? not me, don't care.
Hostage death? not me don't care.
Cancer not me oh wait, help me!

@x0lineage0x Where do you see "I don't care" in my comment?

That does not mean you will not be accused of rape. If you're happy to be incarcerated for life because someone was prepared to lie in court then you're much more laid back than me.

That's exactly what I had in mind, as a voluntary alternative to lifetime incarceration.

Chemical castration is iffy. It's not a one off issue. The meds have to be taken on a regular basis or it's back to 'normal'. It's not uncommon for offenders to get out of prison, promise to keep up the meds, and then disappear. And then we've got the same problem with them.

@ladyprof70 Well then surgical castration do the crime pay the piper.

Do you believe rapists can change?

@Emerald Sure. They can change. Anyone can. The real question, in my opinion, is will they change? That's up to the individual.

@joeymf86 Anyone can change - but in my experience few do....

I wish we had more research about the effectiveness of jail time that was common knowledge in the population. We seem to still be talking about these things like 100 years ago.

@Stig It would seem to me that Prison Sentences for Rape in particular, as with numerous other crimes, are little more than a joke these days.
Since the Bleeding-Heart Snivelliberartians have exerted their power and the Justice Systems in the Western World have become little more than a Toothless Tiger giving the Perpetrators more than a far easier time and softer justice than the Victims get.
Snivellibertarian Lawyers only need to utter words like, " My client had an up-bringing in a very dis-functional house, he suffered from deprivations, was misunderstood as a child, was toilet trained too early or was made to go to bed at set time on school days, didn't get the same PlayStation model/games as his friends received, etc, etc, ad nauseum, I suggest, Your Honour, that these circumstances all combined to force him to be what he is now and he deserves all the leniency possible, etc, etc."
In my most honest opinion, that is a whole load of utter BULLSHIT ever spewed forth by any Lawyer.

@Triphid Yeah - their lives have been so unfortunate that they just have to commit crimes to other people. Sorry to hear that this is the way of current layers. If a person really has had difficult times in life I would have respect if the chose to discontinue it before hurting others.

@Stig I think we are two of the same mind here.
Not wishing nor wanting to blow my own trumpet here BUT if half these 'poor, unfortunate (????)' ' victims of deprivations etc, had had the childhood of maternal abuse, etc, that I suffered through and survived to become the very decent, caring, socially conscious person that I am today, then they wouldn't be bloody vicious criminals anyway.
It sickens me to the core when I hear it said that " Victims of Abuse, etc, grow up to become Abusers."

That is utter BULLSHIT, I know innumerable others like myself who have endured similar to what I lived through and they are NOT Abusers, etc, instead they are the ones fighting for the Rights and Justice for the growing numbers of new victims.

@Triphid yea preach to the choir. Having seen the level and breadth of judges (Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas) can't be surprised. You'd "pray" to get a reasonable judge and a good lawyer on the side of the oppressed these days, but also the only natural response to snake-y arguments like that, is omg he's been thus fucked up u say. I see u. I'm gonna ve very lenient. Here's a life time in a mental reforming institution as it seems sir u have described ur client to have advanced nearly un correctable disturbances and will always be a threat to society. They won't get jail, but they will never be allowed to roam freely unless a universal panel of psychiatrist unanimously judge that they're "fixed". Oh and thank you lawyer for bringing the seriousness of your client's condition to my fucking attention ???? I'm going overboard here, but seriously the degree and pace we're going to idiocracy is cringe worthy

@kng01 Yep, frigging gut-wrenchingly appalling isn't how the criminal gets off almost scot free and the victim suffers for the rest of their life.
I always thought that Justice was designed to serve the victim of the crime and bring retribution to the Guilty, Jeez Louise, how frigging mistaken have I been.

@Bendog There are different degrees of murder. I think the same should apply to rape. I understand that it is harder to prove, but a rape victim can speak a murder victim can't. A murdered person is gone and the justice is for the living, and the protection of the public. How should it be different in a rape case?