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This is something that's been bothering me for a couple weeks. I got a call from a family member I haven't seen in over 20 years. He's my senior by 30+ years. We hung out for a few hours one afternoon. On the drive home, he suddenly became a little hesitant before he spat out, "So, I'm not sure how to say this, but..." and I immediately knew where this question was going, because it's the exact same formula used by all thumpers. And he asked me about my godlessness and how an intelligent creator was the only way the creation of the world made any sense and on and on. And he asked me what proof I have of my position (because he hadn't done any research himself, and expected me to spoon feed it to him). I explained that the burden of proof is on him. He's the one claiming that a (Christian) god exists, so the burden of proof is on him. I even used an example of a unicorn; if I claim unicorns exist, then it's on me to prove that unicorns exist. But that made him mad. And I asked him, isn't it curious that you're a Christian, and you were born in the USA? Whereas if you'd been born in Pakistan or Somalia or Denmark it'd be a different story? And he wasn't willing to discuss that. So only after he took the privilege of saying everything he wanted to say, and simultaneously cutting short my reasonable rebuttals, he felt gracious enough to say, "Well, you're over 21 now, you have the right to your own opinion." Are you kidding me?? I haven't been able to stop thinking about how condescending, smug, and disrespectful this was to say to me. What do you think my response should have been? I was so angry and irritated at this point (I hate arguing) that I couldn't even think of a good comeback.

Kat 5 Sep 29
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23 comments

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4

You did all you could ...you can’t reason with blind faith. He didn’t like your turning around his question because he has no proof of a god and you can never prove a negative and neither can he. It is uncomfortable for them to be faced with the reality that their faith is purely an accident of birth and that he could easily have been born into another belief system entirely! Maybe you will have siwn a seed of doubt in his mind, probably not though, but his impertinence was just what his ilk usually show towards truth seekers and freethinkers.

@Marionville I tried to explain to him that you can't prove a negative, and he instantly got ruffled and refused to listen to me, because his reasoning is that if I can't prove God doesn't exist, then he must exist. What??? Again, condescending, and talking to me as if I'm a small child. Soooo infuriating!?

@Kat Very sad...but you stuck to what you believe and to hell with his attitude. I say good girl! ?

3

The next time you get a chance Pee in his beer!

@bandit321 Calm down there, Satan!?

3

I'm not as subtle as you. I have no patience for this kind of nonsense. I don't care if he was family. I would have told him that him and his god can go fuck each other. Also solves the problem of this being a reoccurring issue because I doubt we would ever speak again.

@Ktruin I'm running out of patience too. Recently I told another family member to stop shoving their religious dogma down my throat, because not only is it extremely irritating, but it's as condescending and rude imaginable. And they were like, "Oh! I never saw it that way! I'm sorry. I was just trying to help you." It was sincere. So that one is squashed, but there's always more, ALWAYS, as I'm sure you well know!

@Kat I hate to say it but sometimes you just have to be a dick. That's the only thing some people understand.

3

I cannot imagine handling this any better than you did. But in your reading I saw myself. Not religious... But the smugness. When I hear someone going on about religion I usually hold my tongue. If anyone who knows me is around me when this happens... They usually look at me expecting me to say something. When I hear someone go off about how great God is... I usually feel sorry for them and think them an idiot. My mom used to say, "What can you expect from a pig but a grunt?" That about sums it up for me.

I'll sometimes ask religious people if they believe of life on other planets in the universe... It's a big place out there. I'll go over the numbers... Billions of galaxies, billions of stars in those galaxies, etc. Most will agree there must be a lot of other life out there and when I have switched them over to science mode... I ask them if Jesus died for the alien's sins also. No two people react to this the same way and I urge you to try it!

@RiverRick thank you for your response. And yes, that's the word: SMUGNESS! It's basically a way of putting me down so I am reduced to a stupid child. I'm so sick of people treating me this way. Oh and I found a meme the other day that you might like (I follow God on Facebook, I think that's where I got this)....

@Kat I LOVE that! Thanks for posting it!

3

Nothing you can really say to a willfully ignorant closed mind.

@Galihad_Z Nope. You're absolutely right. I stood up to him because I'm tired of people running over me.

3

Ignore him. He isn't trying to understand, he just wants to lash out at you. Don't let him do that. Next time he brings it up, tell him you are now a believer... In superman lol

@Cutiebeauty Well, we were traveling in a car at the time, so I couldn't really ignore him. He honestly thinks it's his duty as a Christian to convince me that his god is better and more special than all the other thousands of gods that have ever existed. And that he's a good soldier in the eyes of his god for talking to me about Christ. I guess they're on the point system or something? Or he got a gold star?

3

I don't argue with wing nuts.
I ignore them whenever they bring up religion, act bored, and walk away. I only pay attention to them if they are speaking on neutral subjects.

If I'm trapped and can't leave, I say, "That's you, not me," then act bored and distracted, and keep mumbling "Um-hum..that's nice," while glancing at my watch.

You can quickly train relatives to avoid talking about religion with this method, since nobody likes being ignored.

2

You did great!

And yes it's going to bother you that he can't respect you using logic and reason to make a choice for your own life.

Wish I had a magic wand for all of us!

@RavenCT thank you? Yeah it felt kind of weird. Like, talking to me like I'm a little kid, and then switching gears and saying I'm old enough to have my own opinion. Was I supposed to thank him for that? If you find that magic wand, please let me know!?

2

You're over 21 now and entitled to your own opinion? Belief is beyond opinion. In no way are they the same thing. Besides which, what does age have to do with opinion? You can't force someone to have a belief or opinion without brainwashing. By implication, he's in favor of brainwashing? Especially those under the age of 21, because they don't have a right to their own opinions and beliefs?

@bingst Lots of people have been thoroughly surprised at my atheism, because I grew up in a strict "go to church every single Sunday" +youth groups +mission trips +bible study +pray constantly kind of family. People don't realize they're allowed to have beliefs different than what they grew up in. I've always thought that was kind of weird. I'm sure there's some kind of sociological or psychological explanation for it. But what really got me is, why did he expect me to get his permission? And why is 21 a magic number, as if I'm not allowed to think critically before that arbitrary age?

2

You did well. I think you were lucky he was open minded enough to say you have the right to your own opinion. Imagine how bad his response could have been if he were a real god nutter? Holy water thrown on you? A cross pressed to your forehead while he cast out your demons! Lol

@kensmile4u He went on and on about how God has helped him so much throughout his life, and I was just like, seriously dude. Eventually I said thank you for caring enough about me to want the best for me, to end the excruciating conversation. But I don't think he had any holy water on hand, so who knows LOL?

2

Stop at the next bus stop and let him out.

@Marine Tempting, but he was driving!

2

Kat he sounds like a man determined to save a soul by lecturing you on your perceived wayward ideas...

Maybe you should have asked to touch base with him again but tell him it's to persuade him to leave the church..that you want to spare him from living a lie and wasting his life on nonsense....

Trust me he will never try to convert you or even bother you again. The nerve of some people!

@Hitchen Ha, I love this! But I'd probably hear the same thing he already said, "Well, I don't want to get into that!" I thought that was funny, because he was obviously unprepared for our conversation beyond what the preacher told him to say, or what a Jesus pamphlet instructed, or what the fuck ever.?

2

Come backs are wasted on a closed mind. I would just pity the fool and hope not to see him again for another twenty years.

Zster Level 8 Sep 29, 2018

@Zster You're probably right. Unlike these amateur evangelists, I don't actually believe I'll change anyone's mind when it's so embedded.

2

Gawd tells him he must make the attempt to "save" you......

@AnneWimsey if God was so great, why did he let me go? And if he loves me so much and is all-powerful, wouldn't I already be saved? LOL the ignorance and mindfuckery is astounding!

2

Tell him you appreciate his concern but your satanic lord and master does not permit his followers to know the word of god or Jesus

@Sgt_Spanky I actually did the first part of your suggestion, but I didn't think of the rest, dammit!! I'll keep that in mind for next time!!?

@Kat Always glad to help. 🙂

2

Actually your response was probably the best one, none. Like the quote often attributed to Mark Twain, "there's no point in arguing with an idiot, they only drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience", I think your relative was trying to save you before he went in the ground, and his condescension, was an idiot's way of saying you're stupid. You should write him a thank you note with some of these points, but.....he'll only think like an idiot, soooo...never mind.

@Lop-Eared-Mule Thank you, thank you, thank you! That validates what I've been saying and thinking!

1

"If God wanted me to believe in him, he would know exactly what to do to convince me, wouldn't he?"

"What kind of God is so insecure that he demands and requires my service?"

"God made me this way, sorry!"

1

Thank you all for your comments, suggestions, and comradery!!?

Kat Level 5 Oct 3, 2018
1

You could have told him that he was entitled to his own delusion. 🙂

But seriously, what do you need a comeback for? Don't feed the trolls. Just cut yourself loose from this anchor and be free.

@Heraclitus I am free, I mean I haven't seen him for 21 years, so I'm not worried that he's going to knock on my door with pamphlets about Jesus and inviting me to church services with him anytime soon?

1

I think come backs are so-named because most of us have a moment when we realize what would have best fit the moment and wish we could come back to it. You did fine! Nothing unusual about emotions jumping into a situation and derailing some of the best chances for a good reply. This person had no case up which to stand and put the onus on you, only to say they didn't like any of your answers, after copping out to the intelligent design excuse. As you say, he did no research himself, which means to me he wants an easy way to the truth. Therein lies what should have become the heart of your debate - how do you arrive at answers The answers you have found work for you. Tell him as much and let him do some heavy lifting to find the answers that work for him.

@chalupacabre Thank you! I think he was surprised that I had an argument at all, and didn't just bow down to his reasoning because I was looking for someone to lead me back to the flock. It's such an arrogant position for xtians to take, no matter how you look at it.

1

Lol that's a good story

@onan180 oh, it's one of many that I'm sure a lot of us have! I'm so tired of this shit being shoved down my throat, everyone out to "save" me. Another one bites the dust...?

1

Next time, question why they want to meet up with you again, and meet at a public space, seperately. Never allow yourself to be willingly cornered by a crazy person! Your response was on point, though. Glad you stood up to him.

@AzVixen52 We had an actual reason to meet, but that's a whole other story. I don't think I'm in any danger. We live in separate states, plus it's not we're in regular contact. I didn't even know he was religious! And idk who the fuck felt it was their responsibility to tell him about my heathenism. But whatever, LOL?

1

you're okay. you didn't need a comeback. he wouldn't get it anyway. there is nothing you could say that would get through to him more than you already did.

g

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