If we assume, for example, that God created the universe ... it means self-evident that it is outside of the scope of the Dimensions of universe, Tell me how can explain it, prove it, or understand it, with tool from this universe ((For example science)?... If he is the creator of science (presumed) .. How can you prove it by science
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Well me being an atheist it’s not worth taking the time to think about... Even if we never learn the actual origins of the universe it would give us no reason to think it was a god.
ArdentAtheist
Level 8
Oct 5, 2018
0
- It would be fallacious to assume any such thing
- That which is outside the scope of the universe is not discussable anyway
- You can't explain, [dis]prove or [mis]understand that which is outside the scope of the natural world
mordant
Level 8
Oct 5, 2018
0
Why are we trying to prove it with science?
@belfodil We aren't. I just said it's not [dis]provable by any credible means. Science does not take a position on the matter, as there's no data available to assess questions of truth or existence.
That doesn't mean, of course, that one can't gauge the probability that religious truth-claims or any other thing asserted without evidence, will actually be true. I think we can do that to a reasonable level of accuracy.
The problem with the idea of a creator of the Universe is the infinite regress. If you assume that everything must be created, therefore the Universe needs God to create it, then what created God? It simply moves the question one step back. Furthermore, what created God's creator? What created that? It's an infinite regress of creators. There's no point where we can stop and logically say "This is the ultimate Creator who did not need to be created."
However, by assuming that things come about by a natural process without the need for supernatural creators, we resolve the infinite regress. The Universe happened. We may not know exactly how, but it was by a natural process.
Paul4747
Level 8
Oct 5, 2018
1
Who created God? ... this is according to our limited awareness and the dimensions of our universe only .. but you talk about god .. in the sense of something completely out of the scope of your perception
I mean the qualities of the Creator, are impossible to be Compared with creature ... for example Carpenter makes you a door, is something ridiculous to compare them, Because they are completely different from all sides
@belfodil You're comparing a manufactured product, which we know to be manufactured or made, with the entire natural state of existence. You assume by this analogy that anything which exists, has to have been made intentionally. However, your own existence falsifies this analogy. You weren't designed by your parents; you're the result of their 46 chromosomes coming together to form a new human being, the sperm and egg coming together at the moment of conception. The DNA followed its own rules as developed through natural selection to this point, which resulted in you. There was no designer.
Individual plants and animals aren't designed and built piece by piece by a guiding intelligence. They are the result of DNA working via cumulative natural selection over billions of years. Life designed itself. Oceans and mountains weren't designed, tectonic forces over billions of years shaped the planet (and indeed all planets) as it is today, from one original continent into its current pattern. The movement of continental plates, mere inches per year, resulted in the Himalayas.
Our desire for an overarching pattern and purpose makes us look for order where there is none. It's true that life has order, but that order springs from the bottom up, not from the top down. The only purpose is life sustaining itself, seeking to survive and reproduce. The illusion of design is everywhere, but it is indeed an illusion.
Some feel that this robs life of a greater purpose, but, in the words of Joss Whedon's Angel, "If there's no great, glorious ending to all this... If nothing we do matters... then all that matters is what we do."
@belfodil If your argument assumes the existence of God, this is also not logically provable. God is not necessary for the functioning of the universe.
Nature happens by itself. There's no need for a divine hand to start the process in motion or guide it once it is underway. Once a single organism exists, natural selection fully accounts for the evolution of billions of species and the illusion of design.
There is no evidence for the existence of God. All the so-called evidence proves to be confirmation bias, selective perception, wishful thinking, mythology and folklore.
You cannot prove anything about gods with or without science. Gods are imaginary. If we are in one universe and god in another, how can we know this? To make such a claim is to isolate your god so as to protect him. People do this because they are not ready to turn loose of their god belief.
DenoPenno
Level 9
Oct 5, 2018
1
You can not prove anything outside your dimensions, in which you live, Because all the tools that you have, do not live up to that ... But science can proves that some things are impossible to happen by coincidence
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