THANK YOU. Unless presented with more details, I will side with the girl. We don't know all of the facts, and there's a lot of judgement going on in this thread. Only kindness matters. Always, and All Ways.

@poetdi56 ALWAYS! Screw bullies and people who act like they're better than the rest of us. They aren't. They have the same life span the rest of us have. Some actually get their lives ended quicker. Look at those kids in Columbine High School.

Only victims of bullying will understand you. I laugh when people say "We talk to the bullies to solve the problem." TALKING TO THE BULLY ONLY MAKES HIM / HER TO FEEL HER DOING ARE SUCCESSFUL.

Bravo!

Duke is a No Damn Nonsense kinda guy!
Hey, who knows? Maybe one will break from the flock to apologize and they'll all be great friends someday.

@Dida Nope. This is a just an observation based on human nature but, if you've already made someone cry, they aren't going to call you out for anything you do. They're already intimidated to the point where they cried. And seriously... what's the point in interviewing someone if you aren't trying to learn about their character? There are literally millions of people in the world who have the same skills.

@alicia_j i would never accept a bully' s apology and i will never be his / her friend..... Because apologies do not take away the pain causes and i can't be friends with a person that enjoyed hurting others. Something is wrong with his/her brain.

Nothing like "getting the same".
A kid...10 y/o...was told he was fat and stupid....and he retorted with "Your balls are small; I saw them at the locker room." The bully run away (still running) and my brother laughed until the day he passed.

How do you disband a group? Sometimes, I think, it has to be done very carefully as it could backfire and cause even more animosity.

@JackPedigo In a work situation if there are different shifts you can move them around. In school teachers should do what they can but it is difficult. I just walk away and don't associate. My work experience was tricky and I did end up being fired - the only job that EVER happened on. Woman who canned me later admitted it was a mistake. the mean group was actually a group of GUYS but they acted just like a mean girls group. That is the thing, it usuallt is only 3-4 people in these groups, depending on the over all number of employees or students.

@silverotter11 My late partner had a way to handle elementary school bullies. I don't remember exactly how but she would usually have them call their parents and tell them what they did.

The problem with work situations is if the bully is one who is using their position to push others around. I was in that situation but luckily tax codes changed and I was able to deal with the problem by retiring early.

I told my other co-workers and they all agreed that this little band won't last long with any of us. Zero tolerance for bullies.

@silverotter11 Teachers, my friend, are not there to educate but to provide knowledge. I didn't earn a Masters in Anti-Bullying / Manners but in Teaching Spanish.
We, teaches, report the situation and the school administration and the Justice System are the ones that should be taking action.

@DUCHESSA What do you do if the admin does not take action? What do you do if your boss sides with the bullies? Been there, it's tough.

@silverotter11 Teachers can't do anything; we are not the disciplinarians. BTW, the school administration always intervenes...and if it doesn't work the matter is passed to higher authority within the DOE.

I also remember saying "¿Alguien más?" = Anybody else?

AJ There is some merit to these thoughts. However, I have seen so many bullies in my time, and not all were women. In fact, most were men with Alpha Male personalities. A bully is just a term for someone who is dominant over another with words or physical abuse. Usually over a weaker person in mind or body. These were nothing but bullies. Perhaps we were engineered by "they" but the real question is who are "they?" I call them the powers that be. Ones in positions of authority.

@JustLuAnn our government models bullying; our society tries to spread kindness. We must demand congruency from those who SERVE US, even at the highest level. The more we acquiesce, the more we are modeled/taught conflicting behaviors. Melania may have been bullied to change from cyber-bullying to bullying, but we don't have to knuckle under her husband.

Oh yes, They are the churches, the governments, the goons lurking in the shadows and listening to the private conversations I'm having in my own home through my toaster!
And also oh yes, men are just as beaten into all of it too. They don't trust each other anymore than we do. But while they are wondering which guy in the bar has a faster car and a bigger dick, I do believe we will be the first to look past our own egos and
find the strength to eventually reach out to that knock-out broad with the great chest even though our first thought was to punch your boyfriend for looking at her.

Wow...nicely said @Alicia_J and my thoughts exactly, but I could never express it quite so eloquently.

@BookDeath Ha! Alright smarty pants, maybe not saber tooth tigers but certainly bears and Decepticons.

Get a gun... use it... once the first one drops... the others stop showing up.

I don't need to go to prison for the rest of my life.

I think we were twins separated at birth. You made every point that I was going to suggest. Much thanks.

Even if we weren't there, and even if the newbie was less than innocent, that little speech didn't hurt anyone, and now everyone will be on their toes. No point in trying to read her future behavior. Silence is condoning.

I read the first paragraph of your post....and I had to answer. Why do you imply it was the lady's fault? See, I was victim of bullying in more than one occasion....and my only doing was to be -according to the others- ugly and with eyeglasses.
See, if the young lady was flirting....SO BE IT....Maybe the other girls were pissed off because the trainer didn't pass a ball to them.

This is classic victim blaming right here. "What actually had the young lady done or said to cause this reaction?" Really? Everyone does something that you loathe. It's still not an excuse for any particular behavior.

Duke THANK YOU. It's so refreshing to witness a man actually supporting women and not going straight to the classic "what did SHE do? what was SHE wearing?" victim blaming like so many men (and women sadly.) Your sister(s), daughter(s), niece(s) are lucky to have you and your mama raised you right.

@ReadyforaChange I've never understood the mentality that asks what the victim did to encourage this behavior. It's bullshit. I've been not harassing and not raping women for 57 years. It's not that fucking difficult.

Clearly you do not understand 'flirting'. For some a woman paying rapt attention to a trainer, teacher, etc. is concidered flirting or trying to be the teachers pet. Been there done that and ALL I was interested in was learning how to make my own ceramic glazes. Victim blaming is wrong and need to stop as much as the bullying.

On dinner break. I will address your thought later tonight. Not off till 11 cst..I've run out of time for now.

@Duke @silverotter11 @ReadyforaChange:

Whoa whoa whoa ... the story is WOMEN were talking about another WOMAN who was eavesdropping on their conversation and got her feelings hurt. (SO FAR - I asked for more details since the details about the whole situation were lacking.)

This isn't rape, or assault or any of that hard core stuff, so this "victim" - as you claim - may or not be a victim at all. And ANY HR department worth its salt should ALWAYS conduct some type of investigation into any claims of abuse, bullying or whatever - BEFORE a decision to bring some type of reprimand to bear.

YOU are ASSUMING that this woman is blameless, and as I stated in the middle of my first posting "I was not there, so I understand there may have been factors seen or heard or implied which may have impacted the actual situation." Apparently, the knee-jerk reaction for most of you is just too strong after reading just the first sentence. But human nature as it is - a reaction is usually caused by an action - especially when it comes to the claws coming out with catty women. (From psychology today: [psychologytoday.com]

I don't condone bullying, but I have also seen women use tears to take out other employees that they didn't like. Just like you, the management believed the tears first, and didn't do a real assessment of the situation until they punished someone who didn't warrant it - and you don't get a "do over" in the real, working world. So until I hear the rest of the story, I'm sticking with the "both parties are innocent until proven guilty" and you can take some pepto bismol for that righteous indignation. You might want to see a doctor about that knee as well.

It does not matter what she did. No one deserves to be treated in this manner. We do not know what issues she may or may not have at home that contribute to this break down. One cannot judge the victim. For all we know there are stressors at home contributing to her situation. Another lady I work with said a schoolmate had been bullied and then went home and killed themselves. To answer you question she told me she did not flirt, and was speaking to him as a trainer. They mocked not only this but her looks. They mocked the clothes she was wearing. None of what she did could ever warrant being taunted in this manner. No one should place blame or judge the victim.

@Duke I agree 100 percent Duke.

@JustLuAnn I don't agree. Of course it matters what she did - if in fact she did say or do something which was out of line. And so far you have given no indication that the commenters were debriefed and asked what their exact comments were - which may or may not have been as bad as the afflicted one made them out to be.

You might as well say that drunk drivers are blameless, because they were impaired and didn't know what they were doing when they drink and drive. Hogwash. If you do something out of line and get called on it, you can't play the victim card.

As I stated previously, I wasn't there so I don't know how bad this was. However, it appears that the person reporting is a little bit biased, so the people in this community will never really know what actually happened in the training room. And it appears that no one cared to ask everyone involved what happened, to get both sides of the story. A good example of really poor HR work.

No matter what was said, if a woman collapses because other employees comment on her clothing, she needs some serious counseling to take care of that issue - as well as the other issues that are most likely evident. The employees who commented shouldn't be given 100% blame because they probably didn't know that she was so "fragile" to begin with, and may not have commented if they had known she would flee the room crying. And they shouldn't be held responsible for her eavesdropping on their private conversation and their comments taken out of context if that is what happened.

Stop giving a pass to everyone who claims to be a victim. You are only condoning poor behavior if they are lying, and enabling them to continue to play the victim. I think she played you all and she will be an HR nightmare as well as a poor performer ... because all she has to do is cry, and people fall over backwards to make way for her "feelings" without assessing the complete situation.

The real bad player here is the inept HR department which didn't do its job properly.

@athiestInNC Perhaps the clothing she had on was all she could afford. Maybe she just found out someone close to her was dying...or she had put her pet down the night before. Perhaps the snarky shit she heard from the others was the last push over into an emotional breakdown. I have to wonder if the fact you are objecting so much and so loudly has anything to do with the fact that you don't like or respect women. Ponder that, won't you?

@ReadyforaChange I would be making the same arguments if this were a man. And I've been in this position before. I am one of eight children whose dad was an abusive, drunk, unemployed deadbeat and whose mother was making minimum wage trying to support the family. My clothes were always threadbare hand me downs, and we never had the best of anything, ever. It was always Kmart clothing, government assistance food (before the days of food stamps) and old beat up cars for transportation ... and you always hoped that no one would notice that your parents hadn't done the laundry in two weeks.

I got laughed at in 8th grade because I got on the bus crying ... because I had to help my mom kill my cat that morning. My dad wouldn't take it to the vet, and it needed to be put down - so I got to help bury it after I watched her shoot it in the head ... because it was MY cat. So all this crap that you reference about how poorly this woman's day might have gone is just crap - I've been there and I survived and I didn't need to have somebody take me by the hand and scold the people around me for being so insensitive.

I was the brunt of comments about clothing, income, upbringing, and faith because I was raised Catholic in the middle of nowhere Baptist Missouri. So I guess because I've experienced that situation personally, I am a little better versed in this situation than you are, and what is acceptable treatment to the people involved . Wearing your heart on your sleeve is not the best place for it unless you want to get it stabbed, so it's not being a woman that's the issue - it's the action of the individual that I take umbrage.

Sometimes things don't go your way, but you just have to suck it up and soldier on. It's great to have somebody there to offer you a shoulder to cry on; however, you don't run around and decapitate the people who are insensitive because they're people too. They don't know the whole situation in advance, and what your day was like, before they make insensitive comments. It's just part of being human.

People cannot be too sensitive to words. Yes, sometimes hearing things hurt your feelings - but its not like they stabbed you or they punched you or they physically assaulted you. Just like exercising your muscles so that they don't atrophy, you also have to exercise your emotions so that you're not a mental piece of jello that cannot take any type of negative statement without a meltdown.

I still think you should take a couple of teaspoons of Pepto Bismol for your indignation. It seems to be getting worse. Oh, and do a little more emotional exercise ... your ego is getting a little flabby.

There is NEVER a reason to excuse bullying behavior. I'm not sorry for disagreeing with you on this point. No one carries a sign that says "I am a victim". Some people will always create a victim in any circumstance. Those people need to change that behavior. I've said it before and I'll say it again, justify the behavior and I'll shut the fuck up.

Bullying is domination and intimidation. A bully will search for a weakness and use it to cause harm. If we do not protect the vulnerable we are as guilty as the bullies. There is always a reason for low self-esteem and anxiety so to judge without more information is not fair to the young girl.

@Duke Hey bro I am with you on not excusing the bullying behavior. But I spent 20 years in the Navy. I had seen individuals that at any jesus h freaking christ opportunity will see themselves victimize. I have to counsel people and ask them the question... Why you feel victimized? Maybe you been of the lucky ones that never encounter one... just as bullies go rompant thru live looking who to bully next. There are individuals that almost levitate to the possible victim process even when not applies to them. I believe in thick skin... I was raised to fight bullies... I raised my children to fight bullies. But you can not take away the fact that for whatever mental issue in their head or their experience... there is something wrong on wanting to be a victim. If you never met one... hey great, but they are out there. I will be questioning why she have to be in tears? I understand tears are product of emotions, human emotions but I couldn't go to war in my Navy days with a "victim" on my side. I needed a "warrior". In life as my true life companion and witness to my life... I want a "thick skinned warrior" by my side. Not saying bullying is okay. But I think her tear episode been enough distraction to my life.

@Betty I am not accepting the bully as necessary. But based on what you just said... You can dominate me but you can not intimidate me. Grandma said "if you don't like the odds, instead of bitching change the odds against you". She could had stop it from the first innuendo. All I am saying is Don't be a Victim. Learn to Fight Back. Tears are not a Solution. Did she said if the student ever finished training? I just never seen that scenario in my life in which someone was brought to tears.

@GipsyOfNewSpain "Raised to fight bullies"... Why? Bullies only exist because we give them a pass. Nope. I still disagree. I have never met a single individual who has made themselves become a victim. I've been beat up, fucked with and minimized enough in my lifetime to realize that when someone says they're bullied, I believe them. Don't start victim blaming. That's like saying "she asked for it, the way she was dressed" or "what did she expect was going to happen when she started drinking with those guys?" That shit does not fly well with me. Don't try to give me reasons to blame the person who is waving a red flag. Justify the behavior of the other person and I'll shut up.

@GipsyOfNewSpain

I have. Some people have had trauma in their young lives that have lasting effects. These traumas can be psychological, emotional, physical and/or sexual.

When I was younger I met a very timid and shy young woman who at the age of twelve had witnessed the brutal murder of her mother by her father. Even though she was in her mid-twenties when I met her she was still dealing with the trauma. She didn't trust men and kept to herself much of the time. She had been in therapy since the event.

So without knowing what the background is it is unfair to judge another's behavior.

Have you ever seen the Mean Girls Club in action? Bitches on wheels!! They can tear ya to pieces with just a look. They are called mean girls club for a reason. Ever high school has them, and then they move on to the work place and politics. Some guys are just as bad.

@Duke I will not give a bully a pass. I don't believe in "she asked for it" either or getting somebody drunk. But there are other ways besides tears to handle a situation. If Tears is All You Got To Handle a Situation.... there is something wrong with you. As a boy tears was never my first option. I taught my daughters not be either. We make it a joke now but my daughter used to have in her car a baseball bat... the other my phone number. I am with you about the bullying but to you to admit there is "professional" bullying and not admitting the other side of the spectrum the "professional" victim. Once the incident goes thru HR, Do you know how hard is going to be for that lady to be fired? Even with cause. We live in a very distorted world of regulations and laws and I had seen the "unremovable". Milking the cow until they die. I want to be on record... "I am against Bullying." But everything is not always what it seems. And I am sure I would have intervened at the very beginning of the situation. I defended the help of my house at age 6 with my sister age 3 and my grandmother against a rapist. the rapist ended being shot by the police that same day so... I know about bullies and abuse. I also know those who make themselves victims for personal gain. In the navy, on my rate... you come out of school to a ship, you are going to do nothing but clean up until you get qualify. It is not because you are not puertorican, is not because you are not one of my boys, is not because you are not pretty, is not because you are black, is not because you are not a man. It is because as the junior member of the crew, it is what you do, you field day... all day. I was brought up on charges and of course dismissed because most junior female crew did nothing but field day and according to her General Purpose Cleaner smell make her sick. Charges were dismissed at the lowest level. She was expecting privilege for being the only female seaman recruit on my work center... with a female officer and a female chief. And neither of the two seniors females above me never been on a ship before. I was not a bully as I as able to proof. On the circumstances of the group, the instructor, somebody matured should had intervene. ALL I AM SAYING IS NOT EVERYTHING IS WHAT IT SEEMS... AT TIMES. There are different levels of victims. And most situations could be prevented before they happen. Leadership comes from within... the most senior individual in the class could had step in and halted. I am sure many here had seen it and acted on it here. I am not saying let her suffer or being a witness of the show.

@Betty Yet we are prompt to judge the bully. There are a lot of Broken Individual. I remember cases at work where people made comments about clothes. Me being the oldest in the group I intervened because not everybody is lucky to own a wardrobe. I attended classes with people living in a shelter, I had seen extreme poverty. I had seen how hard is once you go down to get back up. Nobody should be bullied or ridicule because appearance or age. All I tried to say is without knowing her background at the first word, she was within the power to address it and resolved instead of letting it escalate to the tears.

@silverotter11 Oh yeah... but you have to let them do it to you. I remember one new job I was the oldest, nobody wanted to do anything with me. Funny... when it is known that you are the only mother effer in the class that ever installed and supported by phone, not only sold it... supported by phone what the class is about, so no term or phrase is new to you... then EVERYBODY WANTED TO BE MY FRIEND. You can't give them license... talk behind my back will never hurt me. Instructors need to take command of the room immediately or if not a student will.

@GipsyOfNewSpain

I do understand what you are saying and in most cases, you would be correct. Some people are fragile and need time to heal and I understand that too.

@silverotter11 Did you see my comment about basic training?
When I was in basic training in the military a drill instructor once told us they often had meetings with the WAC DI's (women's army corp) to trade notes. He said the stories he heard from the female DI's; the 'profanity' and treatment between the women put the guys to shame. I still remember one specific comment.

@GipsyOfNewSpain I understand bullying and was bullied in elementary school (I wasn't part of the "in" crowd). It's not so easy to stand up to bully's especially if there are several.

@Betty Oh very true. Don't we all worry about what kind of humans our children going to be? And there is always that "angel" that won't hurt a fly that is almost unfit to live in a cruel world like ours.

@JackPedigo So true. Never like bullies.

@JackPedigo My training group in the Navy had 2 female companies and 10 male companies. Company 206 was lucky to have a female company as training partner so we took all the classes co-ed. Female by nature believed or not is more terrible. They are oppressed in our society so in an environment without males... Ouch. Also is the way they grow and play... men had "pseudo code of honor", when you kill someone you look at him in the eyes and press the trigger. Dominance. Females do not learn that role. As a member of a Sea Going Staff we were briefed by CIA employees how to act if kidnapped overseas, etc. And give us a lecture on difference between male and female terrorist. Female was the scary one. But enough... I Still Love All Women.

@silverotter11 See the comment by GipsyOfNewSpain. It highlights just what I said.

@GipsyOfNewSpain

Scary females are the worst, they can be so cruel.

@GipsyOfNewSpain

I agree. I worry about my granddaughters and what they will encounter when they become adults. They are such lovely girls that sometimes I wish they would stay young a little longer.

@Betty all you can do is prepared them for the worst and hope for the best.

@GipsyOfNewSpain

I agree.

Being "stronger" than someone you feel is "weak" is never an excuse to treat them like shit. Minimizing them doesn't justify the behavior.

@Duke if only we needed excuses to be mean to someone in this world. Theres lots of people out there who would kill you for no less than your skin colour or lack of belief, do they need excuses too or is it better to man up and bear your suffering?

By it's very definition bullying is wrong. And what is 'strong' and what is 'weak'. In today's society it is not "might makes right" but "right makes might"! Have we become such dumb cretins that we think it is only strength that counts or have we evolved to understand that it is intelligence that counts?

@rmnsgrt But, do any of those reasons justify the behavior? And, shouldn't we, as a society, try to get beyond that behavior? Isn't it a better option to try to eliminate suffering rather than to man up to it? Most of us here believe in evolution. Shouldn't we continue to evolve as a species and get past some of this nonsense?

@Duke It seems we have not evolved at all. Look who we elected. He has given a voice to bullying, and so very much more.

@Duke We evolved to be this way, to paint it as some kind of evil with no upside would be foolish, there obviously has to be one just you don't quite understand it yet. Bullying of some description exists everywhere and its not hard to speculate why