People who vote for war criminals are just as responsible for their crimes. Vote for the war mongers, share the culpability. One million dead in Iraq on false pretenses, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

So now I am a republican? That's a pretty tall fantasy.

...at least ‘Republicans’ have a consistent response.. These two are ‘out there’ - all over the place, it’s like ..where do you start - US Democracy 101?

They may understand they’ve been played, but have no idea by who. One claims a government ‘run by humans’ can’t work. So what ... a government run by ..fossil fuel, aliens, a ouija board, third-graders, or chimpanzees

The other’s in the camp in denial, exhibiting similar perfection seeking ideals, though apparently feeling free to blame the victims.. They’re not alone, that trend appears epidemic ..but instead of taking on the party of power - using the same rhetoric of said party - they attack Democrats. It’s weak - and you called it.

I’ll occasionally ask which office they ran for? If not, why not? And if they lost, why? ...no, they don’t run for office.. They don’t run - or even stand for anything but chaos….

Not having run for anything (though apparently possessing all the answers ), who did they support? Perfection? They do appear perfect examples of those too weak to take a stand or support a candidate because it would force them to admit they’re not in total control. So they toss insults and cast aspersion on those who do..

It’s obvious they’ve no intention of learning, participating, or promoting a viable alternative … when it’s this easy to blame those who give a damn

ANY form of government run totally by humans is disastrous. Since humankind began they have been fighting amongst themselves about this very subject, and a whole lot more. That's got to tell anyone something, if they can manage to absorb it. There is no utopia, and even if there were, the inevitable change would destroy it. Nonetheless, depending on human leadership is asking for trouble. "It is interesting to note that the men who, in the teeth of history, proclaimed that, if you want peace, you must prepare for war, were the self-same men who solemnly declared that Experience teaches, experientia docet— or, as Mrs. Micawber more aptly put it, "Experientia does it." But as a matter of brute historical fact, Experientia generally doesn't. We got on doing what our own and our father's experience has demonstrated, again and again, to be inappropriate or downright disastrous; and we go on hoping (this time like Mr. Micawber) that "something will turn up" — something completely different from anything which, on the basis of experience, we have any right to expect. Needless to say, it does not turn up. The same old mistakes have the same old consequences and we remain in the same old mess." Aldous Huxley

The "answer" is socialism like they have in Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, etc.

@dahermit It is… There are numerous fears that have caused our Republican Party to go desperate.. The continuing success of Democratic Socialism is one of them.

@THHA “ANY form of government run totally by humans is disastrous.” ..I’m picking up on your frustrations, but am not finding any answers… Anarchy? Violent revolution? Mass suicide..?

We’re in a pot having come to a slow boil. I’ve been watching the Netflix (close as I get to commercial TV) series on the Decades, as in, the 60’s, 70’s … I’m in the 80’s. Each reminding me of having lived them.. with each exhibiting the multitude of reasons we’re where we’re at

Dad was fishing & watching ball games, mom followed & dabbled in politics, I took after mom.. You can’t know how many times in my year here I’ve not described out fucked we are…. I could, but can’t ~

Change is not instant, but it can be substantial. We still have a functional Democracy, for the most part. Gerrymandering, corporate money in politics, continuous unbalanced political propaganda, a packed supreme court, concentrated wealth, a bloated military, lack of national health care.

But, it can be deciphered, and corrected. If our citizens (of the USA) used our democracy to elect representatives dedicated to reversing this situation - it could be repaired. My question remains: how bad must it get before the majority of fellow citizens consistently vote to repair it? Not just a stellar President - but a lasting Congress (both houses) to back him/ her.

Discouraging us from using the most peaceful means we have leaves only drastic alternatives …. So what do you propose?

I do not have ALL of the answers, but my feeling is that while humans are reluctant to trust artificial intelligence, they should . . . . it is not only more logical, but less emotional, its pride is not hurt, it has no overburdened ego, and, if and when humans begin the big transition from human to transhumanism, a real revolution will occur . . . . . If, and I say IF, humans do not wipe themselves off of the planet before that happens.

@THHA I’d love to see us progress, and in many of ways, we have. I’d trust using a ‘computer algorithm’ to lay out new congressional district boundaries. But it’s the time between now and what you envision I’m most concerned with, the now.

I don’t see violent revolution as necessary. We’ve still got a strong Democracy, and some well educated, if perhaps ‘over educated’ citizens within it. The USA has just corrected one major error; we’ve won back our House of Representatives! And as I occasionally remind myself - the majority of voters in 2016 did not vote for what we’ve got … but I don’t want anyone sitting on their hands in ..less than 2 years, thinking they can’t make a difference.

I’m curious if you’ve got children? If I didn’t, maybe I’d be advocating for more aggressive change … and maybe I wouldn’t care And what about other nations, what do you envision them doing if we implode? ..the whole world is watching ~

Americans are destroying other countries when they support what is in Washington. Voting legitimizes the war criminals. The US has been behaving even worse than the deeds of the old Soviet Union. One million killed in Iraq on false pretenses, US orchestrated coups, bombings, drones, refugees as a result, and Americas complain because someone sees all this and refuses to be part of it, and mark my word, voting is taking part in it, it legitimizes it. Hospitals were bombed, Libya's water supply was bombed . . . war crimes. That is not protecting America, that is playing the Nazi, and Americans a complicit in it when they support either Democrats or Republicans, because both support this war for profit and conquest.

@THHA What’s your answer … other than ‘not voting’? You’ve mentioned letting artificial life run our nation ..or something like that. How and when will that work? Who programs it? ...I’m not finding answers or suggestions here, just an accusatory disconnect.

There appear to be Purists, those incapable of accepting human greed and aggression, so they fixate on such frailties. Others step up, work around them, and do whatever in their power to make things better..

Seems pointless here attempting to describe the necessity of voting in our democracy. You’ve obviously given up.. I haven’t, and if I witness other’s advocating we all give up, I will continue to speak up in an attempt to guide them to better times.

At his death, there were between nine and eleven mourners at his funeral, he owned no land, and, if that is power, I'd like to know what is not power. The only "power" present at the time of his death was what he had written.

Read on. "Well, not quite true, after all Karl Marx had a lot of power in his life."

@maturin1919 I agree. His ideas still had power after his death, they killed at least six million Russians and many more beside. What has your funeral got to do with power.

@Fernapple My answer was not meant for the context you are attempting to lead it into. You seem to think that you can just charge in, tangentialize the argument, and make something of it. Yet you have not proven my statement to be false . . . . and that was, that Marx died without power. If you want to address other questions, I suggest you place them on the thread were they should be, not under something that you cannot disprove.

@THHA Seems to me that that there are different ways at looking at "power".

@THHA, @Fernapple Yes but his ides also kept a lot of Russians alive too, and he did have a lot of personal power which is very important.

@THHA In the end we all die and what we have achieved is still there. I would say that Marx achieved a lot.

@THHA I do not think that it matters in the least if the power goes at a tangent or not. It is still power. You are trying to support your argument by using a personal definition of the word power so narrow that I do not think that anyone else would agree to it. And in the end that makes this just an argument about the usages of words, which I have no time for, since they are always pointless, so Bye.

Not so, I am just refusing to be led off onto a tangent, which is different that what my reply encompasses. I said that he had no power when he died, you want to start a new thread without first acknowledging that. Tough luck.

@Fernapple Aren't you an impatient little vegemite.

@Jolanta Very impatient, but please explain vegemite, since it is one I have not encountered before and it sounds fun.

@Jolanta, @THHA OK, since Jolanta got me back on this page I will make one more reply. It is called "history" and therefore all the threads are attached, and have been so since the start, that is the nature of history.

@Fernapple Vegemite is a spread that one puts on bread. It is similar to marmite if you know that. It is an Australia ikon, very salty. I personally don't like it but many do. When someone calls you a vegemite, that is a form of affection.

@Jolanta Thanks, that made my day.

No, but one of these might . . . . a purple and white polka-dotted winged elephant flying around the rings of Saturn with a unicorn stuffed up its ass. You'll have to break out a very large telescope to see it though.

Absolutely agree!

By voting democrat or republican, you are legitimizing their power, and their war crimes. Since World War II, the USA has killed more than 20 million people, that averages out to roughly 282,000 per year, 23,474 per month, or 782 per day. The USA has been at war more than 90% of the time since 1776! The USA:

Starting a war Afghanistan
Starting a war in Iraq - about one million killed
Starting a war Syria
Starting a war Libya
interfered in Yemen
interfered in Ukraine
interfered in Somalia
And it goes on and on . . .
.
No pattern of behavior here at all, right?

[globalresearch.ca]

This is your government, that YOU voted for. Feeling better?

@THHA so, we, (and the rest of the world) are suffering, and in mortal danger, under Cheeto, because YOU did not vote as some kind of weird protest....gee, thanks.

Your CHEETO's are nothing more than PUPPETS, do you really think that the CHEETO you elect controls what this nation does? This current one, just like that last one, likely most of the ones before him wanted to stop all the foreign wars and then they suddenly change their minds after they attain the office? If that tells you anything, it should be nagging at you, after all, people's lives depend on it, but then again, what do the lives of the millions of people effected mean to the average American? The average American is BLIND to it, just like the German Citizens in pre-WWII Germany were. They not only do not see it, they DO NOT WANT TO SEE IT.

@AnneWimsey Anne, I am afraid that we got the guy BECAUSE so many people voted.

@Spinliesel yup, 3 million More of them voted for Hillary.......