I forgot to add "intelligence" Those four things can never go together. Scrabble would be painful. Lol!

I seriously doubt anyone would be upset about anyone taking down an active shooter.

In the last 2 weeks there have been 2 stories of the police arriving and shooting the good guys. One was a black soldier in plain clothes and one was a home owner who killed an intruder.
The more guns in situation is not always a good thing.

@Lorajay Really I went into store with just a empty leg holster on and someone called the cops.
Sorry but all of this hypersensitivity is leading to a lack of common sense and overreacting.

@Ktcyan exactly why everyone carrying a gun is a stupid idea. No one would be unhappy about someone killing an active shooter but the police will always have a problem knowing who the good guys are if everyone is carrying a gun and shooting.

@Alshaytan perhaps you should get yourself a good guy t-shirt and jacket so everyone will know you are one of the good guys carrying a gun.

@Ktcyan Yeah I know and in one of the cases it was a witness that reported that the guy who intervened was the active shooter.

Seriously sucks but sadly the only one that was really wrong in that was the initial shooter. My group that I shoot with is already trying to reach out to law enforcement and come up with some training and protocols for civilians responding to an active shooter incident.

So far we’ve agreed that if you’ve downed them then holster up and wait next to the shooter and let the police to remove your firearm.

But if you find yourself actively engaging then try to get on your phone and identify yourself to 911 as well as the initial shooter with description and location)

Sadly though I believe that some would be happier if the perpetrator was to invoke as many casualties as possible so that they can take away something that they’re personally ignorant or because it represents something that they for some ignorant reason feel inferior to.

And that’s right I said inferior to because fear of would have to include every explosive and large vehicle that so have been used in multiple terror attacks.

@Lorajay Ahh I see what you did there “ good guy” yeah i know that nowadays everything and everyone requires a “ label “ but if you really need a label then how’s about “ protector “ and it’s not a label it’s a mentality and behavior.

And believe it or not it’s takes a special kind of person to sacrifice themselves to stop someone or someone’s from harming and killing innocent people.

And since it’s become somewhat unpopular to be a cop so now there’s fewer available to prevent or to respond so yeah those of us who have had the proper background and training should respond if there.

@Alshaytan I have guns and I'm not afraid of them. The more guns in a situation the more people could be hit in the crossfire. How would each person in a crowd with a gun know who is going to be the one who shoots, they don't so more than one could start shooting and at what point do you know that person is not with the perpetrator or if he is another good guy with a gun, you don't know. This is all a slippery slope that I can't see how it makes anyone safer.
Then we have guys like this who carry a gun and then harass Somali teens at a McDonalds. This guy didn't even have a permit to carry but there he is feeling pretty self assured because he had one.
[fox9.com]

@Alshaytan I have a couple friends who are cops. They said that it's hard to find good cops and that many who apply have been in war zones and that makes them too trigger happy. They also said that many of the applicants are going into police work for the wrong reasons. The carrying guns and being hard asses is what they see not the community relationship building and that de escalation are more important and need to be done everyday.

@Ktcyan Training and communication. Even though I’d die on my feet before I’d let some smug little ? unarm me because it makes them feel superior.
I believe and support mandatory training for anyone before they’re allowed to obtain a firearm.

We have to have a set # of hours of training before we can obtain a license to operate numerous versions of automobiles and even certain construction equipment.

So why not firearms? That way at least hopefully we can weed out some of the ones that shouldn’t have access to them.
And yes I’m aware that they can obtain them illegally but they’ll be lesser qualified to use it and there’s laws to prosecute them for doing so.

I’m former military and law enforcement and I can tell you that you can tell the difference in an environment when other people sense that there’s people like us in the mix.

So educate and empower the right and the wrong people will be less likely to attempt these acts

@Alshaytan If people are willing to at least have the same level of training as police before they can carry in public I'd be more apt to support it and they must identify themselves someway, like a reserve police or something. That would be for everyones safety, or maybe a deterrent. I just don't think that in most places in public it's really needed. And if it were we'd be living in a police state.
If I ever get to the point that I don't feel safe in public I'll stay home. It would be too stressful and I like to feel free and that the world is a good place.
It's kind of like the saying that if you are a hammer everything you see is a nail, I don't ever want to feel that way.

@Ktcyan that’s mainly the reason why I got out. I came in after the Rodney King riots and the use of continuum had changed to communicate and de escalate and after 9/11 due to pressure from sheriffs most of whom were never law enforcement themselves they changed the rules to if you fear that your life is in imminent danger than by all means shoot.

And like you said these boys coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan were being taught to shoot it if it moves didn’t help but it also comes down to the field trainers. I could roll through some seriously f’d up neighborhoods and have people talk with me because I got out my car and I got to know people by their names which what i was taught.

I was actually criticized for that by a sgt. and was told that it was our job to patrol and control.
And at that moment I realized two things (1) why I didn’t get that promotion and (2) it was time to go.

Tell your friends to keep their heads and to try to teach what’s right and if it gets to be too much then tell that truck driving is just as scary but it pays better.

@Ktcyan I wholeheartedly respect that and I wish that it wasn’t necessary but the crazies love attention and the media loves to give it to them so I just don’t know ?

@Alshaytan One of my friends already left and went into the DNR. The shoot first ask questions later will never work well. It's sad when we lose good cops due to a bad system, we need those guys now more than ever.
I used to work with level 4 kids in a closed school program. I was the interventionist. Most rewarding job ever! I was the only staff the kids wouldn't swear at and the only one they would defend if any new kids would give me any grief. They were already in and out of juvenile detention. They all had one thing in common, they had been hurt in any number of ways and their trust had been broken by those they should have been able to trust. I wish I could have adopted the whole bunch and taken them home. When I left, these kids who would swing at anyone who touched them all hugged me goodbye and made me the nicest cards. The resounding truth is that HURT PEOPLE HURT PEOPLE. We need to somehow get to them before it all goes wrong, that's what good cops want to do.

@Alshaytan oh so right about the media giving them their 15 minutes of fame.

@Ktcyan Wow yeah you’re absolutely right hurt people do hurt people but sadly with a society where there’s so many people claiming to be hurt or traumatized that it’s easy to become desensitized to it and therefore miss the ones that are truly damaged.

And what you did takes a world of patience and inner strength and I have a great deal of respect you or anyone that can do that with the intent of wanting to. I seriously salute you.

But maybe one day our society will have its reset button hit and we can go back to improving lives instead of defending them.

@Ktcyan Yeah but unfortunately it’s not 15 minutes it’s 15 days.
My kid went to Va Tech 7 years ago and everyone I knew was still hung up on the massacre that occurred there and couldn’t seem to understand why I’d let my kid go there.

And I asked them had they been to the school?
Had they met their campus police? Or their staff?
Because if they had you’d see that they all felt what occurred there and instead of letting the fear of it occurring again take control they instead focused on the community within the school and promoted a oneness that was intended to bond everyone there.

And that’s what’s missing from our society and I only wish that there was a way without violence to induce that into our country.

@Alshaytan It doesn't cost anything to be kind and it's so much easier than anything else I've ever done. Thanks for the good conversation. North Carolina is a beautiful state I was there last summer, it was hot, very hot.

@Ktcyan Yes you’re right and yes coming from Minnesota I can understand just like I’m not looking to making any deliveries up your way now ???

@Alshaytan I want better gun control rules. I do not want to take your damn gun except when you imply that you think I do then I want to shove it up your ass.

@Lorajay Ooooh kinky so could we start with a .22 first?

@noluck33 There’s a actual chance of that yes