I'm not sure if you are trying to be serious or if your response is intended to be comical/satirical (poking fun at theists with a comically stupid response).

If you are trying to be funny, adding SATIRE ALERT makes such responses easier to understand. If you are actually being serious, LOL

You start with the classic theist (ignorant persons) straw-man (misrepresenting big bang argument) Big bang that is actually defined as "Theory is the leading explanation about how the universe began. At its simplest, it says the universe as we know it started with a small singularity, then inflated over the next 13.8 billion years to the cosmos that we know today." A singularity is not your claimed nothing.

Then you slither over to the false dichotomy argument:
"(Nothing - BIG BANG - Everything plus Darwinian Evolution) or (An Intelligent Designer/Engineer - GOD)" and disregard a variety of other options that include multivere.

Also, biological evolution is not dependent on the Big Bang event. Biological evolution and big bang are different topics. You can start with multivers, biogenesis (another topic) then onto evolution but to demonstrate evolution, biogenesis, and the origin of the planet is not necessary.

Evolution is both a theory and a fact. We have ample evidence that demonstrates this fact. When we look back, the vast majority of the time of life on earth, there is no trace of man as the evidence demonstrates we did not evolve until geologically time speaking, a few moments ago.

From there you insert a list of trivia and finally get to the meat of your argument (This one literally made me laugh out loud) sight "The Bible - “For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky." "

Really, this is your evidence of a god? LOL

We have ample evidence that supports this assertion is not factually accurate. What's next? The biblical cure for leprosy?

TO Mr. NoMagicCookie:

I'm not sure if you are trying to be serious or if your response is intended to be comical/satirical (poking fun at theists with a comically stupid response).
If you are trying to be funny, adding SATIRE ALERT makes such responses easier to understand. If you are actually being serious, LOL

You start with the classic theist (YES I AM) (ignorant persons) (YOU ARE RIGHT, I AM IGNORANT) straw-man misrepresenting big bang argument (“NEARLY 14 BILLION YEARS AGO, THERE WAS NOTHING AND NOWHERE. THEN, DUE TO A RANDOM FLUCTUATION IN A COMPLETELY EMPTY VOID, A UNIVERSE EXPLODED INTO EXISTENCE. SOMETHING THE SIZE OF A SUBATOMIC PARTICLE INFLATED INTO UNIMAGINABLE HUGE SIZE IN A FRACTION OF A SECOND, DRIVEN ALPART BY NEGATIVE-PRESSURE VACUUM ENERGY. SCIENTISTS CALL THIS THEORY FOR THE ORIGIN OF THE UNIVERSE THE BIG BANG.” SPACE.COM)

THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD: OBSERVABLE, TESTABLE, REPRODUCIBLE. LACKING THIS, ALL YOU HAVE IS HYPOTHESES. SINCE NO ONE SAW IT, IT CAN’T BE TESTABLE OR REPRODUCED, ALL YOU HAVE ARE THEORIES

Big bang that is actually defined as "Theory is the leading explanation about how the universe began. At its simplest, it says the universe as we know it started with a small singularity (WHERE DID THIS SINGULARITY COME FROM), then inflated over the next 13.8 billion years to the cosmos that we know today." A singularity is not your claimed nothing. CHECK AGAIN

Then you slither over to the false dichotomy argument:
"(Nothing - BIG BANG - Everything plus Darwinian Evolution) or (An Intelligent Designer/Engineer - GOD)" and disregard a variety of other options that include multivere. MULTIVERE IS NOT AN OPTION FOR ORIGIN.

Also, biological evolution is not dependent on the Big Bang event. YES IT IS. Biological evolution and big bang are different topics. YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER. You can start with multivers, biogenesis (another topic) then onto evolution but to demonstrate evolution, biogenesis, and the origin of the planet is not necessary. BUT YOU DO NEED A PLANET. EVOLUTION AND BIOGENESIS DO NOT OCCUR IN EMPTY SPACE.

Evolution is both a theory and a fact. IT IS NOT A FACT. We have ample evidence that demonstrates this fact. NO YOU DON’T. CAN YOU GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE OF DARWINIAN EVOLUTION, NOT ADAPTATION OR SPECIATION, BUT A CHANGE OF KIND.

When we look back, the vast majority of the time of life on earth, there is no trace of man as the evidence demonstrates we did not evolve until geologically time speaking, a few moments ago. I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, BUT YOU DID BRING UP AN BIG PROBLEM YOU HAVE: LIFE - WHAT IS IT AND WHEN DID IT BEGIN?

From there you insert a list of trivia (“TRIVIA” - THE ENORMOUSLY VASTNESS AND LARGENESS OF THE UNIVERSE, STARS, PLANETS IN YOUR THEORY NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR. YOUR BIG PROBLEM: FROM NOTHING TO EVERYTHING.) and finally get to the meat of your argument APPARENTLY, YOU CONVENIENTLY SET YOURSELF APART FROM ISSAC NEWTON, ALBERT EINSTEIN, NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, CARL SAGAN, AND THOMAS EDISON.

(This one literally made me laugh out loud) sight "The Bible - “For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky." Really, this is your evidence of a god? NO, THIS IS NOT PROOF, IT IS AN INDICTMENT. THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS THAT THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN "EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND TONGUE WILL CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD." ALSO, A TIME WHEN GOD MAY SAY TO YOU, "DEPART FROM ME, I NEVER KNEW YOU."

LOL We have ample evidence (NO YOU DON’T. THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE SAY WHEN THEY DON’T HAVE EVIDENCE) that supports this assertion is not factually accurate. DARWINIAN EVOLUTION IS A FAITH UNLESS YOU CAN GIVE JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF A CHANGE OF KIND FROM ANOTHER KIND: FELINE, CANINE, HUMANKIND ARE KINDS. I JUST NEED ONE EXAMPLE. MY FAITH IS AS VALID AS YOUR FAITH EXCEPT I CAN GIVE YOU MANY MORE PROOFS THAN YOU CAN GIVE ME IF YOU ARE INTERESTED. What's next? The biblical cure for leprosy? NO

@rock9361 LOL You have no idea how funny I found your ranting.

Here, I'll address a few of you more outlandish rebuttals:

Then you slither over to the false dichotomy argument:
"(Nothing - BIG BANG - Everything plus Darwinian Evolution) or (An Intelligent Designer/Engineer - GOD)" and disregard a variety of other options that include multivere. MULTIVERE IS NOT AN OPTION FOR ORIGIN.

Why is Multivers not on option? I don't need to demonstrate that the world evolved to demonstrate evolution is factual.

Also, biological evolution is not dependent on the Big Bang event. YES IT IS. Biological evolution and big bang are different topics. YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER. You can start with multivers, biogenesis (another topic) then onto evolution but to demonstrate evolution, biogenesis, and the origin of the planet is not necessary. BUT YOU DO NEED A PLANET. EVOLUTION AND BIOGENESIS DO NOT OCCUR IN EMPTY SPACE. you fail to recognize that your "GOD MADE IT" is not addressed. furthermore, If everything must be created, what created your god?

Evolution is both a theory and a fact. IT IS NOT A FACT. We have ample evidence that demonstrates this fact. NO YOU DON’T. CAN YOU GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE OF DARWINIAN EVOLUTION, NOT ADAPTATION OR SPECIATION, BUT A CHANGE OF KIND.

***Change of kind?: OK, Ring species. This is really worth your time to watch as you really do need some fundamental education.

When we look back, the vast majority of the time of life on earth, there is no trace of man as the evidence demonstrates we did not evolve until geologically time speaking, a few moments ago. I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, BUT YOU DID BRING UP AN BIG PROBLEM YOU HAVE: LIFE - WHAT IS IT AND WHEN DID IT BEGIN? ***Face and palm. Spend some time and watch this.

From there you insert a list of trivia (“TRIVIA” - THE ENORMOUSLY VASTNESS AND LARGENESS OF THE UNIVERSE, STARS, PLANETS IN YOUR THEORY NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR. YOUR BIG PROBLEM: FROM NOTHING TO EVERYTHING.) and finally get to the meat of your argument APPARENTLY, YOU CONVENIENTLY SET YOURSELF APART FROM ISSAC NEWTON, ALBERT EINSTEIN, NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, CARL SAGAN, AND THOMAS EDISON.

(This one literally made me laugh out loud) sight "The Bible - “For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky." Really, this is your evidence of a god? NO, THIS IS NOT PROOF, IT IS AN INDICTMENT. THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS THAT THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN "EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND TONGUE WILL CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD." ALSO, A TIME WHEN GOD MAY SAY TO YOU, "DEPART FROM ME, I NEVER KNEW YOU."

And the bible also claims to cure leprosy you:

"Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly away. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally find another pair of birds. Kill one and dip the live bird in the dead bird’s blood. Wipe some blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle the house with blood 7 times.
– Leviticus 14:2-52"  The bible is filled with nonsense that has been demonstrated to be wrong.  I find anybody that quotes a book that has been demonstrated to  not be accurate and is filled with contradictions to be less then in tough with reality.   I prefer truth (things that can be demonstrated) over faith and often contradictory to reality  based nonsense.   

LOL We have ample evidence (NO YOU DON’T. THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE SAY WHEN THEY DON’T HAVE EVIDENCE) that supports this assertion is not factually accurate. DARWINIAN EVOLUTION IS A FAITH UNLESS YOU CAN GIVE JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF A CHANGE OF KIND FROM ANOTHER KIND: FELINE, CANINE, HUMANKIND ARE KINDS. I JUST NEED ONE EXAMPLE. MY FAITH IS AS VALID AS YOUR FAITH EXCEPT I CAN GIVE YOU MANY MORE PROOFS THAN YOU CAN GIVE ME IF YOU ARE INTERESTED. What's next? The biblical cure for leprosy? NO ***Why not? How do you pick and choose from your book of fables? Is it not all supposed to be the work of god? LOL

Evolution as a fact: Here.

Atheists like yourself say there is no evidence for God, but I would really like to know what you consider “evidence”. You have only two available choices: (From Nothing to BIG BANG to Everything plus Darwinian Evolution) or (An Intelligent Designer/Engineer - GOD)

Read below of Betelgeuse a star that would cast a shadow over half of our solar system. That star (BANG) came from nothing. Really!

Richard Dawkins - “Faith is the great cop out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.” That places Hawkins in disagreement with some of the giants of science.

Isaac Newton - “The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and the comets could only proceed from the council and dominion of an intelligent and powerful being.”

Albert Einstein - “The creator was unknowable. In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human understanding, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But really what makes me angry is that they quoted me for support of such views. I am not an atheist.“

The Bible - “When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them? … Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!”

The Bible calls the universe the finger of God.

The universe shouts of the handiwork of the Lord. The heavens reveal the infinite mind and artistry of God through an incredible range of sizes and distance, diversity and beauty.

EVIDENCE:

We are going to take an imaginary trip into space as we see it today.

The International Space Station orbits 200 miles above our 8,000 mile diameter earth and peers into the incomprehensible distances of space. Our solar system, planets and their orbits, could fit into a cube 6 billion miles on each side. As we approach our nearest star system - Alpha Centauri. It takes 4,278 of these stacked cubes containing our solar systems to fit between Alpha Centauri and our sun - Impossible to imagine.

We see that Alpha Centauri has two stars that appear as one, similar in size and color to our sun with a surface temperature is about 6,000 degrees.

The third star system faintly visible from earth s called Proxima Centauri. The constellations (Big Dipper, etc.) are visible from Proxima Centauri and are similar to what we see from our solar system. This means that they are much farther away than we originally thought.

Sirius is the brightest star that we can see from earth is 50,000,000,000,000 (50 trillion) miles away. It is twice the size of our sun. Its blue color measures 9000°C.

Red stars are cooler. The star Pollux in the constellation Gemini is a giant red star 10 times the diameter of our sun.

Passing by the constellations, Orion is a familiar star in our winter sky. A center star in Orion’s belt is call Alnilam - a super blue giant. Twenty-five of our suns could be lined up across its diameter. Blue stars burn up hot and rapidly.

Rigel is another blue super giant with 70 suns across, but even larger stars have been discovered. Betelgeuse is one if the largest stars in our solar neighbor and is 600 times the diameter of our sun.

Overlaid on our solar system, the center being our sun, Betelgeuse would cast a shadow over our sun, the orbits and planets of Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars and half the distance between Mars and Jupiter. This is a super star!

One light year light will travel almost 6,000,000,000,000 (6 trillion) miles.

Betelgeuse is over 400 light years or 24 hundred trillion miles away from Earth and yet it is one of the nearest of Orion’s bright stars to the Earth.

Alinilan lies over 1000 light years away.

Now we are traveling deeper into space several hundred light years toward Orion’s belt. When we reach the nearest star in Orion‘s belt, 5 million billion miles in space from Earth, we look back to see our entire solar system is reduced to an invisible point.

In addition to stars and planets further out in the universe there are nebulae which are hot colorful clouds of hydrogen and helium gas spread over vast distances in space. Some nebulae are quite large spanning many light-years across. These amazing creations can be rightly called the artwork of God.

Next we come upon a globular cluster. The globular cluster M4, fuzzy in appearance through a telescope, in reality is thousands upon thousands of stars. It is the furthest distant we have been able to travel through our telescopes and astronomical instruments being 7000 light years and 40 million billion miles away from earth. It is estimated that globular cluster M4 contains 100,000 stars and yet this density star field is only 50 light years across.

Within these globular clusters are flashing lights call a pulsars. They are thought to be remnants of an exploded star around which rotates planets. Our view from here is absolutely breathtaking - flashing white pulsars, red, blue, and white stars fill the sky before us. The sky is so dense we cannot see the universe beyond them.

M4 is one of 100 globular clusters that belong in our galaxy the Milky Way. No person or satellite has seen the entire Milky Way which spans 80,000 light years across and contains 100 billion stars. Our solar system containing our sun, all our planets and moons is just a tiny star within the Milky Way. If we could superimpose a map of the United States across the Milky Way, our solar system would be located somewhere around Cincinnati, Ohio.

As we travel on even further, we will come across the Virgo cluster which contains 2000 galaxies and is only 50,000,000 (50 million) light years away from Earth. At the heart of Virgo cluster is M87, an elliptical galaxy containing over 1 trillion stars.

All of the galaxies we visited are only an insignificantly small portion of the cosmos. There are many theoretical physicists who believe the cosmos contains several coexisting universes.

The Bible - “For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused.  Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools.”

Richard Dawkins again- “Faith is the great cop out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.”

Albert Einstein. “The creator was unknowable. In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human understanding, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But really what makes me angry is that they quoted me for support of such views. I am not an atheist.“

Charles Darwin said “I have never been an atheist.”

Neil Degrasse Tyson - “I can’t agree with the claims by atheists that I am one of that community.”

Isaac Newton - “The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and the comets could only proceed from the council and dominion of an intelligent and powerful being.”

Abraham Lincoln - “I know the Lord is always on the side of the right but it is my constant anxiety and prayer that I and this nation should be on the Lord side.”

Carl Sagan: “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”

Thomas Edison, “There is a great directing head of people and things – a supreme being who looks after the destinies of the world.”

Now that you have the Power what are you going to do with it? Let's talk in another 40 yeas.

@rock9361 Are you like this with all women, expecting them to prove themselves to you for whatever screwed up reason exists in your head? Or are you just baiting me for the hell of it, because you decided to be an online asshole and pick on me?

Can you say you've educated yourself, gotten a BA and a masters degree with your own money while working full time? Do you have your own car and place to live without the support of parents, friends, family or anyone else? Do you have your independence? Have you made a career working for the second largest public school district in the country, and survived in one of the most expensive cities in the U.S.? Unless you can say any of those things for yourself, I suggest you STFU. Otherwise, you're just a waste of carbon on this site.

@rock9361 And who the hell are you? Besides a piece of trash who can't even spell the word "years."

@GilbertFreon I think he's a religious nutjob, just here to troll people. Either that or a typical incel dude who got bored with his MR threads on Reddit and decided to bring his toxic masculinity over here.

Ruby_slipper:

@rock9361 are you like this with all women, (ruby, i don’t have any idea what you are talking about) expecting them to prove (prove what?) themselves to you for whatever screwed up reason exists in your head? Or are you just baiting me for the hell of it, because you decided to be an online asshole and pick on me? (no one here picking on you. I wasn’t even talking to you, i was writing to someone else and if this website placed my comment near yours, then that is not my problem.)

can you say you've educated yourself, (i only have 144 college units) gotten a ba and a masters degree with your own money while working full time? Do you have your own car and place to live without the support of parents, friends, family or anyone else? Do you have your independence? Have you made a career working for the second largest public school district in the country, and survived in one of the most expensive cities in the u. S.? (i think you should be proud of yourself.) unless you can say any of those things for yourself, i suggest you stfu. Otherwise, you're just a waste of carbon on this site. (you might be right, but i did hitchhike to alaska when i was 20, fell down a mountain, was surround 360 degrees by snarling wolves their hair standing up along their spins, lost my wallet and money, got knocked off a boarded sidewalk by two drunks who were thrown out of a saloon and who attempted to “roll” me on the dark side of fairbanks at 2:00 am, discovered my wall two days later on the running board of an old model a pickup, had a close encounter with a grizzly, got into a single car auto accident traveling a 100 mph on the alkan highway - the driver was someone who just got out of prison for killing somebody, was picked up by a “chicken hawk” outside of reno, and had a gun pulled on me in kansas. All before i got home to chicago. Through all of that time i had a bible verse ringing in my head, god said, “i will never leave you nor forsake you.” yes, i believe in god. Can any atheist or agnostic convince me to chance my position? - not a chance! I had such a great time that i soon headed off for mexico, honduras, nicaragua, and guatemala and los angeles where i stayed. I worked one year for someone and then i borrowed a bucket and a hose and started washing trucks. We build that business up to where we were washing 7,000 trucks a month on a regualar basis. I sold that business for cash, bought a book - “how to build a house” - a piece of property. I build a duplex apartment. Spend 10 years building apartments in southern ca and then moved up to the foothills of the sierras below lake tahoe. I built three homes for myself and now i am retired where i love engaging atheists and spend time learning how to spell “years” (for gilbertfreon}

This is true.

Doesn't that mean that what you believe in now is godly? What does that look like?

What is your antonym to "godly"?

@rock9361 Nah, I don’t, being an agnostic should speak for itself.

@rock9361 Godly to me is someone who is kind, compassionate,fair etc, etc.

I just saw the documentary film by Ken Burns called, “Vietnam”. The testimony of one soldier said that as he looked around and saw all of the death and destruction, misery and sadness, he became an atheist ... until the bullets began flying again.”

My question to you is why did he begin believing in God again? There was no evidence, was there?

@rock9361 -- I see you are operating with some worn out stereotype stories there. I will answer first the question not asked but intimated. Yes, there are atheists in foxholes, both real and metaphoric, who have never once called out to anything. This is a 'been there, done that' situation. You might also want to take a walk through military cemeteries to help reinforce this one.

I'm going to give you two videos here. The first one is from the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers (MAAF). It is a tribute to a few of those atheists who have been in the foxholes, cockpits, submarines, etc. That we exist should be enough to dispel this idea of 'no atheists in foxholes.' The following one is a video addressing 5 of the arguments used to refute atheism.

I think this notion may come from a lack of understanding. What, in your mind, is an atheist? I await your answer to this question. After that, we can discuss these issues.

Mr. evidentialist,

An atheist in my mind is someone who believes that is no evidence to support the existence of God.

Important: Evidence can be valid whether or not someone acknowledges it. Refusal to accept evidence reflects more upon the hearer. Everyone views “evidence” through the lens of their own prejudices and experiences.

Your response to my original thought set me back a little. I gave you a first person testimony of a real situation to a credible source (producer for Ken Burn’s Vietnam documentary) which you can verify by watching the film. You chose to belittled his statement: “I became an atheist until the bullets began to fly again.” - my paraphrase. You then compounded that by acknowledging there are many “worn out stereotype stories”. “Stories” (plural) means you concur and understand that this situation has happened over and over again.

You missed my original point. I was not questioning whether or not there were atheists in foxholes. My question is “why”. Why have so many people reacted the way this soldier did?

I believe “Why” should be an important tool in our toolboxes.

Bible says that “death is our last great enemy.” You and I are of similar ages and I believe that each of us will soon find out if this is true.

As evidence that God exists, I reflect upon the Jews (Israel) as revealed in the Bible.

God said that He would “bless those who bless (Israel) and curse those who curse them.”

Why are Jews unique? They should have been exterminated or assimilated long ago.  But a Jew is still a Jew. 

Here are dominating forces who tried to annihilate the Jews:  The Ancient Egyptian Empire, the Babylonian Empire, the Phillistines, the Persian Empire, Assyria, the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Spainish Empire, the Crusaders , Nazi Germany, and Russia.  Today, Muslin countries surrounding Israel are intent on her destruction.

The Bible also said Jews would be returned from exile to their homeland. In 1948, the United Nations gave Israel statehood and land. They will never be forced to leave again.

I am convinced this is evidence for the existence for God. You may not.

Suggestion: Watch the middle east. Jews validate the existence of God.

For me there are hundreds of evidences for the existence of God. Here is another. I don’t know who Mr. evidentialist is but I do know who Jesus Christ is.

An assay written in the 1920’s by Dr. James Allan Francis

“He was born in an obscure village, the of a peasant woman. He grew up in still another village, where He worked in a carpenter shop until He was 30. Then for three years He was an itinerant preacher. He never wrote a book. He never held an office. He never had a family or owned a house. He didn't go to college. He never visited a big city. He never traveled 200 miles from the place where he was born. He did none of the things one usually associates with greatness. He had no credentials but himself. He was only 33 when the tide of public opinion turned against Him. His friends ran away. He was turned over to His enemies and went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed to a cross between two thieves. While He was dying, his executioners gambled for His clothing, the only property He had on earth. When He was dead, He was laid in a borrowed grave, through the pity of a friend.

Nineteen (twenty) centuries have come and gone, and today He is the central Figure of the human race and the Leader of mankind's progress. All the armies that ever marched; all the navies that ever sailed; all the parliaments that ever sat; all the kings that ever reigned -- put together; have not affected the life of man on this earth as much as that one solitary life.”

My evidence is not your evidence. That’s OK by me.

@rock9361 -- Well, for your information, Mr. Evidentialist is J. Richard Jacobs. He is recently 78 years of age. A cultural Jew. A physicist. A Naval Architect. An Engineer. An author. A one time long ago in the age of unicorns folksinger and musician, ex-military, artist in both fine arts and commercial arts, father, grandfather, great grandfather, great-great grandfather, an avid amateur astronomer for over 71 years, and an atheist.

Now, with respect to my response to your comment about the film. I belittled nothing. I did, however, refute the statement of the film which through intimation indicates that folks under fire return to belief in a magic man in the sky. That statement, on the other hand, does no service to those who are atheists under fire. There are many, many people who do not resort to belief in deity/afterlife under stress. I am one of them and I know many others.

As for evidence, I am one who follows the epistemology of evidentialism, hence evidentialist, but that comes with the caveat that evidence is acceptable when it meets the criteria of scientific scrutiny. Nothing that has been provided so far that ostensibly supports 1) the bible or 2) the existence of the Big Guy in the Sky or 3) the Dead Jew on a Stick come anywhere close to those criteria.

One is free to believe anything one wishes, but one must bear in mind that when making assertions to others, those assertions are subject to question and it is up to the individual making said assertions to support them adequately and with sufficient rigor to make a reasonable and logical response with real evidence and not anecdote and hyperbole.

Your inclusion: “He was born in an obscure village, the [son] of a peasant woman. He grew up in still another village, where He worked in a carpenter shop until He was 30. Then for three years He was an itinerant..."

Considering the reasons stated for the birthplace being Bethlehem, none of that is supported by historical accounts by any source outside of the bible and Roman law of the time refutes it.

The problems here are manifold. Nazareth is not mentioned even once in the entire Old Testament. The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list. The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth, nor does early rabbinic literature mention it anywhere. St Paul knows nothing of 'Nazareth'. Rabbi Solly's epistles (real and fake) mention Jesus 221 times, Nazareth not at all. No ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth. It is first noted at the beginning of the 4th century. Where are the ruins? There are none. The most likely thing that existed in the current location of what is known as Nazareth would have been a cemetery for the city of Japha, a place where Josephus lived for some time. Oddly, Josephus, though he led battles ranging over that entire region, never once mentions a place called Nazareth, but he lists several others.

It is now pretty well accepted by many biblical scholars that the Exodus never occurred and I'd be happy to run the numbers on that one for you -- if you'd like.

@evidentialist
An old English nursery rhyme could come under the heading of “missing the point”:

“Pussy Cat, pussy cat where have you been.
I went to London to visit the Queen.

“Pussy cat, pussy cat wha’d you do there.
I chase a mouse under her chair.”

Your resume is impressive. Perhaps if only you could have added a psychology degree to it, you might have been able to appreciate my question “Why”. I don’t know why one would become an atheist one moment and then a believer the next repeatedly. I don’t know why.

Nevertheless, what I’ve experienced when talking with atheists is that they can easily ding off on a tangent instantly to avoid something. I believe that James Allan Francis’ writing can be classified as an epic poem - a short epic poem. He said Jesus was born in an “obscure village” and you chose to ding off of that to another world totally missing the point. (You are not saying Jesus did not exist, are you?) The point is that that Jew known as Jesus has affected the entire world for centuries after he walked this earth - much more that anyone or anything else.

I just finished reading a book- The Gifts of the Jews by Thomas Cahill. How a Tribe of Desert Nomads Changes the Way Everyone Thinks and Feels. “Captivating…persuasive as well as entertaining…Mr. Cahill’s book is a gift.” - Christopher Lehmann Haupt, The New York Times ( I don’t think he is a Jew, a Christian, or an atheist. Maybe he is just your ordinary pagan-theist. [joke])

What would Jesus do with a scoffing, nonbeliever? I’m sure you know that Jesus was a celebrity. It is documented that Herod Antipas was delighted at the opportunity to see Jesus, because he had heard about him and had been hoping for a long time to see him perform a miracle. He asked Jesus question after question, but Jesus refused to answer.

He was executed with two criminals. One of them spoke up for Jesus to the other criminal saying “this man hasn’t done anything wrong.” His request to Jesus was simple “remember me when you come into your Kingdom.” And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

The other criminal - the scoffer said, “So you’re the Messiah, are you? Prove it by saving yourself—and us, too, while you’re at it!”

The response of Jesus: silence.

One of my favorite Scripture verses is found in the Book of Isaiah - “Thus says the Lord, …’But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.’”

@rock9361 -- I took a few courses in psychology and have read a bit, but a psychologist I am not. My youngest daughter took up that one, and I have several friends in the profession. It is ... interesting.

Quite the writer, Cahill. Prolific and erudite with eloquence.

You said that you didn't know why one would become and atheist one moment and a believer the next repeatedly. I suggest to you that the conditioning of religion is the early life boot camp for many and the residue of such training is not removed quite so easily. It has been my experience with many atheists becoming that they tend to be uncertain and afraid in the beginning. After all, to be an atheist/agnostic, one must learn to live with uncertainty and question. Absolute answers are not so abundant in the life outside of belief in things supernatural and absolute.

It is understandable how a young man (most of us who do the fighting are young) in the face of extreme stress will automatically revert to the more comfortable and 'known' where there is at least temporary escape in the notion that there is something powerful enough to intervene, to protect one's mortal being, or at least a guarantee of everlasting life somewhere in the sky. When the stress is relieved, one is then free to begin questioning again. Flip/flop. I don't find anything odd about that. Some of us, however, have come to grips with our mortality and the freedom from the need for a god early enough to not have gone through that stage when the chips were down.

Now, I have some questions for you. Where is it documented that Herod Antipas was anxious to see Y'shuah? I mean, aside from in the bible. Where, besides in the new testament, is there mention of Nazareth? Where does one find outside evidence for the reason the soon to be parents of Y'shuah had to travel to Jerusalem? Just for starters.

I do not say that Y'shuah didn't exist. Y'shuah, like my Hebrew name, David-Ya'akov, is a popular one and was popular in that time period as well. I think we can be reasonably certain there were a thousand or more men named Y'shuah during that time. What I do question is the existence of a miracle worker, self-proclaimed son of a deity, itinerant rabbi who led 12 (a highly symbolic number like 18 and several others) disciples around the region. At that time there were many individuals claiming to be the messiah and the political climate helped spawn them.

@evidentialist Talking to Mitch (friend) who passed your comments on to John (John was a secular Jew that adhered to no religion. His story is an interesting one...They all are in one fashion or another... Even yours and mine?) Here are his thoughts:

Hey Mitch! Heavy stuff! Last question first-Jews were obligated to be in Jerusalem for 3 of the seven Mosaic feasts-and Sukkot was one of them(tabernacles)! Many historians and theologians believe Jesus was born in the fall and not winter-which explains why Mary and Joseph were in Jerusalem at that time. The question of Nazareth is complex-the quote is something like “spoken” of by the prophets. Well, not to pick nits, but just because it wasn’t written doesn’t mean it wasn’t part of the lexicon of oral history. But let’s stop here! No, let’s briefly comment on Herod Antipas-his dad killed all the two year olds in Bethlehem to protect his kingdom, and his son heard about this Jesus and was, like many, excited to see a miracle worker-if Jesus wasn’t the only one performing these miracles, he wouldn’t be singled out as such. But to address the issues this guy brings up only accents his intransigence regarding the messiah. The Jewish faith has been without its most powerful reason for being, namely, the ability to forgive sins and get right with the father-but the Jews missed the fact that Jesus died on the cross to accomplish just that! So, Judaism was remade by a group of rabbis to accommodate the fact that without the shedding of blood, no sin can be forgiven-Leviticus. The Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud are the reworking of Gds word and probably an outworking of Romans 11:24-26-and if this guy thinks he will be comfortable standing up to the creator of the universe on judgement day and cite the passage of a “partial hardening of the heart” until the fullness of the gentiles comes in, well, he’s got a set of stones like no one I know! Truth be told, it’s not that he cannot believe, but that he Will not believe. Ask him if he has the audacity to question the validity of the Word of Gd, then he, as a physicist, must prove that he has spoken out against the teaching of the theory of evolution in a concrete way regarding what is taught as truth to all of our children! What separates the Bible from ALL other books, religious or other, is that events and people are written about BEFORE they happen! Which begs the question-Who is this someone? Sorry if I’m a little scattered-stuff with the kids is intruding on my thoughts right now... hope this helps, and I’m always available to talk to a fellow tribesman about our fellow tribesman-Yeshuah!!! God BlessMitch!

Are you an atheist?

@rock9361 I am a non-theist. I don't put much more stock in those who are absolutely certain that there is nothing more than I do those who are certain there's a sky person calling all of the shots. I am not sure what that makes me, to be honest.