yes indeed. Let's hope they die faster. Hopefully the council will be able to keep up with the removal of dead bodies before summer hits.

Right. We should bend people to our world-view, even if they have to starve a little bit to see the light. If they don't....well, certainly they deserve their misfortune.

You really have got no clue. I hope you never get into a situation that you won’t have enough to eat.

This issue is very simple. Give everyone a job that pays a living wage, instead of giving rich people tax breaks.

@Jolanta exactly so. Distribution of wealth is key. No one needs to have millions of dollars and no one deserves it. Did you know that when Finland had high unemployment they switched to six hour days. People were more productive because they worked harder while at work, and they were happier because they had more time for recreation.

In yours and my country some people are working 60 hrs a week while others have no jobs. It isn't right. I know a man who turned to ice and became homeless at 48. His business had gone bust, couldn't pay mortgage, or creditors. depression and stress were going through the roof and his marriage broke up. This could happen to anyone of us. We must Quit the blame game

@MsDemeanour Another interesting coincidence. The other day I was watching a program called "Adam Ruins Everything" [ecosia.org] and the issue of work, hours and benefits was discussed. Very entertaining and informative.

@Jolanta Why do so many refuse to see the world as a complicated place. My own sister was homeless. Why, because she didn't give a damn about most things. She didn't care for her kids (even they wouldn't help her) or her own health. Her 3rd husband kicked her out and she went to living in her car. One brother rescued her and gave her room and board (he has a very large house) in exchange that she watch the pets and house when they were away. Eve he expressed doubts sometime.
I would ask what about people with low or no skills, or low education levels, or those who are in a place illegally, or those with addictions, or those that don't want to work for another (I have a personal friend like that), or, or, or....?? I am not hungry because I care about my life enough to take steps to keep me secure and, yes luck, I don't have issues that get in the way.
I have lived and traveled all over the world and this country and seen and experienced a lot. There are solid reasons I feel the way I do (but I am still flexible).

@Deveno Sounds sarcastic. People live in a world with Billions of others and limited resources. That is a fact of life. Yes, they need to learn to adapt and try and fit in to survive. Many don't feel this way and some become terrorists and some are willing to take their chances (I personally knew one such person who ended up taking a tramp steamer from Germany to Belize and then got drunk, in a bar fight and got stabbed to death). You want what the world has to offer you need to learn to fit in enough to get what you need to survive.

@JackPedigo Jack there will always be people like your sister. There’s always going to be people with mental illness. What do you think we should do with them? Push them out and pretend that it is not happening? You need to remember that you could suddenly have something happening to you and you would be that person who has lost their mind. Also most people want to work but can’t get a job that pays them a living wage.

@Jolanta What I hear (and I have heard it many times before) is that charity should be a form of insurance. "I do it because I might be in that position." I don't follow that premise. I do things because I feel it is important. If my giving only prolongs the condition or even makes it worse I will not give. If it helps to solve a problem and leads to independence than maybe (depends on the issue). Sorry, with 7.5+ Billion and counting humans on this planet with all the problems this has caused I do not give to adding more. I do give to programs that help reduce those numbers (like Planned Parenthood or EngenderHealth). Again, this is not a simple issue. It is very complicated and has very serious ramifications.

@JackPedigo I'll check out Adam Ruin's Everything episode of which you speak. (I'll just boast and say it is on our 'free to air' tv here in Aus with all episodes).

I find some logic in what you say because of the imbalance in our ecosystem. I don't actually believe humans are more important than any other animal on this planet. So when I see that the consequence of human overpopulation causes the extinction of other animals eg orangutans, koalas, polar bears and thousands of other species, not to mention the damage to the environment, I question the importance of human life. However, just as I am horrified by the thought of animals dying as a result of land clearing, I can't condone ignoring the plight of people in need.

With the right distribution of wealth, the planet is able to sustain the population (though not much more I suspect). As humans with empathy it is our responsibility to care for those who are unable to care for themselves. Not because it could be 'me' one day but because we care.

Gov'ts have done a good job at encouraging us to blame the homeless and unemployed. Very few want to live in poverty and on the streets. You need to dig a little deeper, see how unemployment erodes one's self-esteem and dignity, how it affects the mind, how depression takes over the soul until one is unable to act, to face going for a job interview, or even interact with others. It is so hard to come back from that. This is why these people, these precious human beings need our compassion and help. Would you kick a kitten in the gutter? I doubt it. Can't you try to understand those less resilient and capable than you? Each have a history that has brought them to this point.

@MsDemeanour Thank you for understanding and being open to the issue of overpopulation. I have mentioned numerous times here and recently got a letter in the Seattle Times with a question my late partner asked her 2nd graders, "what is more important, people or dirt?"
I still take some issue with a lot of your last paragraph. My best friend is a brilliant architect but has never wanted to be controlled by anyone. He has been extremely lucky and has managed to get by. The case with my sister is common. Many people just don't care and sometimes the pity game is used to exploit others. I have been in your shoes. Decades ago I was at a low point and saw a seemingly worth charity organization, "Children International" so I 'adopted a child from the Philippines and every month for 12 years sent money and letters. This was not a con job but in 1994 something happened that caused me to think. It was also the year of the UN conference in Cairo on population and I followed what was going on. Just lime many of us here that once followed a religion and then found it wrong I was presented that situation with this charity and later other charities. It was hard. You may judge me but you have not been in my shoes. To me true morality is about preserving life, all life. Often we do things that actually make the situation we are trying to fix actually worse. Life is not easy nor is it simple. If you really care you need to be open to ideas even ones you are uncomfortable with. Otherwise, you are letting your cognitive dissonance and others rule you.

@JackPedigo I'm sorry if you felt I was judging you. Perhaps I was. My intent was to get you to pause and reconsider. People aren't all the same it's true but no one wants to suffer. I have to wonder what happened to your architect friend that absolutely prohibits him from working for someone else. We are what we have experienced after all.Of course some of don't aspire to the wealth dream. We are content to eek out our own existence and be obligated to no one.

What is it with your sister? Is there a mental heath problem? a cognitive problem? does she have some victim mentality and wants to be rescued? why would that be? Does she lack confidence? or is it that she has always been lazy and someone has always been there to bail her out?

Of the 550,000 homeless on American streets, do you really think that is the choice of the majority?

NB: I wouldn't be giving to the philippines either. Mostly catholic, that evil pope tells them it's their duty to propagate. The catholic church has the funds to feed the needy.

@MsDemeanour My friend had a friend whose mother died and she inherited a second, larger house. She asked him to build a garden for her and maintain it and he could live, rent-free in her first house which he does. It's also his office. There is nothing wrong with him and he is very knowledgeable and a great friend. His parents were great and we were friends in HS. Not all people are the same and I have know a few who were very independently minded. My sister was always like this (I won't tell you a gross story about her childhood) but she has never taken things seriously. Again, different thought patterns. A lot of people have addiction or mental problems and end up on the street but a lot simply don't care or have gotten so used to it it is normal for them.

It was not about the Philippines and it was a Protestant organization. The program is world wide. The issue was that this child (who was about 12) wrote me and said his father had been injured cutting trees (which he did to make charcoal for cooking). Later he wrote and said his mother was expecting another child. I looked up his family history and found they already had 5 kids and needed help (the organization is not for destitute families but only needy ones). I tried to write him a letter asking about how they would manage but it was sent back by the group. I tried several avenues but they were always sent back. I contacted the head and asked if they had any family planning programs. I was told they would refer families if they asked (which was a lie). He also said we have the same goal but different ways of reaching them. This was clearly BS. I was left with the choice of dropping out or continuing with something I knew was wrong. It was then I discovered an organization here called Zero Population Growth. It changed my whole outlook on life. I did drop out.

I have had a lot of experiences dealing with hard situations and have found (my late partner helped me a lot) that often one must practice tough love to really help. I fully believe the adage that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.One really needs to look very hard at everything they donate to. I know all about the Catholic Church. I was a part of this religion for 47 years.

@JackPedigo yes what you are saying I have heard many times before too. Just excuses so you don’t have to help.

@Jolanta But I see a knee jerk reaction to immediately help is done so one doesn't have to actually practice critical thinking. I did some thinking on this and remembered that a lot of people are incredibly lazy and will look for someone else to do work for them. Most of us have a hard enough time dealing with our own lives never mind taking on the lives of others (which reminds me of a really shocking but amazing film titled "The Lives of Others"

@JackPedigo Yes some people are very lazy, especially if they have money.

@Jolanta I don't think money has a lot to do with laziness. I also think, we just have to agree to disagree. Again, I have been in your shoes you have not been in mine.

@JackPedigo I would probably drown in your shoes and they may be a bit smelly too, he. he.

@Jolanta I wear a size 8 and wrong on the smelly part. Insults are not very becoming!