I realized something the other day. People saying 'believe' in Jesus. Not love, hate or follow just believe. When even the idea of your religion STARTS with a statement that suggests doubt? It's so lazy with no real depth. I'm surprised I was still religious until near adulthood.
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If you spend just one hour critically examining the claims of religion you'll come away an agnostic if not an atheist. That'll come later.
Sgt_Spanky
Level 8
Jan 8, 2019
1
To a Christian, religious faith is the opposite of doubt, so saying you "believe in" Jesus is to claim that you've overcome any doubt in the approved manner. Of course the reality is that religious faith is belief without supporting evidence so in fact what it actually consists of, is ignoring legitimate doubts -- which are, of course, legion in this case.
As to being lazy and shallow ... yeah I would pretty much agree with that. Abiding things like religious faith is like walking around with a sign stapled to your forehead saying, "someone please just tell me what to believe". That's very different from "someone just show me valid evidence" which would imply you had invested some thought in how one goes about determining and substantiating actual facts; being committed to actual reality; reflecting on the human condition and your role in it, etc. All of that is just crushingly difficult work to someone who has submitted to authoritarian religion.
Don't go too hard on yourself though, when it's all you know, it's all you know ...
mordant
Level 8
Jan 8, 2019
1
I believe in Jesus. As in I believe it is likely, on the balance of probability of the direct evidence and some of the gaps where you would expect evidence, that some itinerant Jewish hippy type wandered around the middle east getting on the nerves of the Jewish establishment and Roman rulers. In fact I believe in some of the so called teachings, the stuff about being jolly nice to people and sharing and stuff. I don't believe in a magic god baby or miracles or being some highly exalted individual. Its like people saying, 'I don't believe in religion'. Religion exists, if it didn't, it is likely we wouldn't on this site.
Amisja
Level 8
Jan 8, 2019
0
I see commercials on TV where they simply ask you to "believe" in Jesus and you will be saved. Very lame indeed! Saved from what? If the world comes to a flaming end in the future long after you are gone how are you being saved? Over 2000 years later we find that salvation has taken on another definition entirely.
DenoPenno
Level 9
Jan 8, 2019
0
Well what they claim you need to be saved from is far more personal and immediate than the heat death of the universe or something. It is to be saved from eternal perdition if you die while still in thrall to Satan. More generally, there's also the implication that you need to be saved from yourself -- from your enslavement to "sin" and such. It's a way to play on people's inadequacies by offering absolution from any guilt feelings or shame of inadequacy. Turns you into an instant "winner" supposedly. It's actually a clever backstory to the human condition for which they can claim exclusive access to the only remedy.
After all, the Abrahamic religions have been around for thousands of years. There IS a reason for that. Never underestimate your adversary.
@DenoPenno I'm a deconvert, like most of us here. Had some formal theological training many years ago. I'm not arguing anyone needs salvation, only that lots of people feel a need, and there's a reason for that rooted in the human condition. Otherwise no one would have ever given the Abrahamic faiths the time of day. It's easy to take pot-shots and call it stupid. Christianity for example hasn't got much to show for 2,000 years of attempts to advance its value proposition (only a third of humanity buys into it in even a cultural way, and they'll soon lose their place as the largest world religion to Islam). On the other hand, it has endured for 2,000 years and has had a huge influence on culture and art and society, and even now is corrupting and distorting political discourse in unsavory ways. We have to counter that with something more than scorn.
@DenoPenno Scorn here too. But I try to understand its appeal, as I want to actually convince the occasional person to re-evaluate their relationship to it. If it was as batshit crazy and stupid as we made it out to be, it would have long ago collapsed under its own absurdity. That doesn't make it right, or good, or useful ... it does however explain how it endures and might lead us to its weaknesses.
i always reacted that way to god's early statement (in the hebrew bible) that he is a jealous god. if he's the only one, of whom is he jealous?
g
genessa
Level 8
Jan 8, 2019
5
I don't have the jealous problem. My Catholic girlfriends believes everyone is jealous, not me. Why can't God master this childishness act of jealousy.
The most important rule, have no other God before me.
@genessa "Have no God before me" implies if you have sixty million Gods, you can line them all up together but this one has to be at least one foot ahead of the crowd.
Very true, and the unspeakable name is translated as "jealous" in some areas to where Jealous is the actual name of god.
@WonderWartHog99 Do we get to pick one weekly and one gets eliminated? LOL!!!!
@IAJO163 during an epic dope smoking season in San Diego, I declared myself as God.
"Look into my blood shot eyes and tell me you can't figure out why everything else is fucked up," I told them.
For the next two years in San Diego, people would stop me on the street and welcome me with "Hello God." Naturally, I didn't disagree with them. Guilty bystanders gasped in fear and awe.
I don't live in San Diego anymore. I scared too many people being a deity.
@WonderWartHog99 I sometimes enjoy the view from up there myself lol!
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