This has been a political game going on for years and years. You are correct, illegals have been hired but unfortunately now jobs are getting scarce and mostly require skills most illegals don't have. The harsh reality is that the land of plenty is a thing in the past and it's not going to come back. The problem will keep getting worst and we will pass the milestone of finger pointing if we don't change course.

@IamNobody You might notice the price of fruits and vegetables are going up. Jobs often picked by migrant workers who aren't always perfectly legal.
Tell me there are Americans who want those jobs.
I was in Napa, CA in 1988 during the Crush and the one local I met who was helping bring in the crop was half dead with exhaustion. No so the migrant workers I met down at the Napa River on Sunny afternoon.
I honestly don't believe we have Americans who would do that labor. We barely did back then.
I think it would be great if we made the folks who we do have - legal. (Of course you know - check them out).

But restricting workers who would do this sort of work - that no one is asking for? That makes no sense at all. It's just going to increase prices.

Current Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi (D-Ca), I presume.

@bingst Gees I wonder who the Creepy Hypocrite is? I really do NOT want to know.

We all have our naming conventions. lol

@RavenCT Schumer

The majority sneaking through the harsh desert take their chances because they can't either buy a plane ticket or can't get on the plane because they can't pass passport/visa inspection. Not sure from where this idea comes from, not the first time I hear this one though.

@OwlInASack how would you word it? It's not like they are walking tall when they get in, do they?

@OwlInASack well you are better than me and makes you feel better about yourself. Good for you. Once again, not the issue being discussed

@OwlInASack The why is subject to discussion, the reasons probably a matter of interpretation. I am not talking about any of that. I am talking about the present and my specific question all along has been the number of illegals already in the country, are those a fabrication or not? We can discuss any other issue in a separate thread or you can start another one you may like better. On this one I just want to know if this number is fault of the current administration or not.

@IamNobody You say the Majority, but that's the furthest from the truth. Look up statistics or a dictionary, majority of illegal migrants means MOST of them. If you think MOST of America's illegal migrants are coming in on foot across the Mexican border, then you drank the Flavor-Aid. You've been poisoned by political lies. Read the statistics made by the INS or ICE or any other acronym associated with the illegals in this country.

The real discussion shouldn't be the mostly useless wall, but why Trump isn't talking about increasing surveillance, hiring more federal agents, case workers, and judges. Why when thousands migrants showed up at the border to claim asylum, we didn't send 5k of useful people to the border, but instead postured military, with no legal authority to do anything unless all out war erupted. He played the dictator strategy and what came of it? Less than 5% of the Caravan acted up, while the other 95% waited patiently, and are still waiting patiently. Do we need more guards to stop the thousands waiting in Mexico to FAIRLY ask for asylum, or do we need case workers and judges to get through the mountain of paperwork faster.

Trump isn't asking for this and when billions were offered for this reason, he rejected it. Why? Cause no WALL. He wants a giant golden statue to his greatness, and he'll bankrupt America to do it. Even now, as his base is dwindling and the Republican party is taking a hit to its membership, he still thinks the Wall is the most important thing.

Even now, loyal followers are quoting the recent police officer who was shot by an illegal immigrant, while not quoting the number of children dying in poorly constructed Tent Cities that were considered cruel and unusual punishment by Arizona's standard. We're killing more of their children than they are killing our law enforcement. When asked about this in Congress, the response was "I don't have the statistics with me" because the answer would have gotten her crucified.

So if you want to classify the Border Crisis as the human rights violations committed by America by the border, than I agree that it's not fabricated. If you think not having a wall is the Crisis, then I absolutely call that a fabrication. The Caravan was a Fabrication. The Newer, Bigger Caravan, is a fabrication. All of this to desperately save face over an ignorant campaign promise that no politicians in the Republican party thought would ever see the light of day.

That's politics and it's part of the problem. My question still stand.... Is the 20 million illegals a fabrication???

@IamNobody You failed to support your claim.

@AlPastor is 20 million not enough?

@IamNobody What a strange and nonsensical question.

@AlPastor a nonsensical answer for a nonsensical question then.....still, I am asking you again, is 20 million illegals enough? (It's a yes/no question)

@IamNobody I'd rather not go nonsensical. I don't know what the number should be. I'm not an expert and I don't know if anyone has run the numbers or studied what the numbers should be for the US population to sustain it's current consumer driven capitalist system.

[newscientist.com]

[ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

[washingtonpost.com]

@AlPastor it was a simple yes/no question. I guess I am not getting an answer

You got a correct answer that you don't like. Anyway, you still failed.

@OwlInASack What is the correct question?

@OwlInASack is reparate even a word?

@OwlInASack ok cool beans then

Will it be a crisis when the number bumps to 30 million?....50 million?....300 million?

@IamNobody Is it a problem? yes Will a fucking wall solve the problem? No You know damn well that is the truth.

@nvrnuff there is one way to know..... Build the wall !!!!

@IamNobody Then you pay for it.

@nvrnuff I pay my taxes, you got that right

@IamNobody So do I, and I don't want it wasted on this ignorant campaign promise which has already been broken.

@nvrnuff I don't want Patriots to win another Superbowl...so?

@IamNobody And that's not going to cost you a dime. You're going to have to try harder to make an intelligent argument.

@nvrnuff I have, the argument is the same. The problem will keep growing until there is no other choice but to close the border. I am not saying it will happen tomorrow or the next month but if the trend continues then the day will come and the wall will be built quietly with not much politics involved

@OwlInASack of course the intervention card.... Gee

@OwlInASack Separate topic

@IamNobody There is no point in continuing this discussion. You don't want to accept facts, just repeat talking points, good day.

@nvrnuff Good day and the 20 millon keeps growing day in day out

@IamNobody Why not look for positive solutions that help people. Building a wall is unlikely to stop illegal trafficking. It never has.
Look for better solutions that help all people. Not just Americans.

@RavenCT Here is a thought line.... there are sections of the wall already deployed in several locations (For instance, McAllen Tx as Jim Acosta gladly demonstrated to everyone how that one really works). Those sections were NOT built by Trump. Those were built by other administrations. Why those were not such a big deal then?. Trump wants to finish what someone else started. Why is such a big deal with Trump?. It's politics and Trump hatred, nothing else. Quite frankly I find that disgusting. The same people that have now a new found love for immigrants it's likely the very same people that used to rant years ago about immigrants stealing resources, getting hand outs, etc etc. Let Trump wrap this up and be done with it for once and for all.

@IamNobody I never wanted a wall. Facts have proven walls do not work. Crossings are made with tunnels underground, or on water, or by plane.
This is just useless. And wasteful.

And a President holding a country at a standstill to get his own way? Should never get what he wants.

@RavenCT We will keep going in circles here. None of us want that. We have both stated our points of view and that's all we can do. Thanks for your comments.

@OwlInASack This is NOT a moral issue. There is legal migration of people that follow the rules and there is illegal migration of people who doesn't. There is a distinction.
Next, I didn't cherry pick SOME hypocrites neither I said that stand for the majority, those are YOUR words not mine. I did call out the only one that have video on record calling for STOPPING illegal immigration just few years ago..... Anyway, I thought we had closed this chapter. You support illegal immigration and I support LEGAL immigration. It is actually very simple. Glad you have recognized the Trump factor though.

@OwlInASack How many do you sponsor in your house on your own dime?

@OwlInASack I think it's relevant, you want them here and a lot will need support just to get started. How many can you take under your wing and help with all.expenses?

You can cut it anyway you like. What I am saying is that those 20 million are a slap in the face to the ones following the process to become either a resident or eventually a citizen. And most importantly, those 20 million is the result of years of neglect of the problem by many administrations that didn't really dare to try to fix it. Some did pretend and now have forgotten only because they hate 45. It is that simple

People are not illegal, actions are. Anyway, everyone that has ever jaywalked is a criminal.