I agree.

okay, so because the republicans and the supreme court would not go for single payer, obamacare, much better than we DID have, sucks and shouldn't exist? tell that to the what, now 12 million people who have coverage who had none before, many of whom would have died without it. yes, let's now go for single payer, although we still have a republican senate run by a guy who kisses trump's and putin's ass (isn't that the same ass?) but MEANWHILE i am sure glad i'm covered, preexisting conditions, vagina and old age and all!

g

@genessa I blame the Republicans for sure.
Better than nothing does not mean good.

@MsAl not as good as perfect isn't the same as better than nothing. in the case of the aca is IT good. single payer would be better. that doesn't mean the aca is bad. it is far better than "better than nothing."

g

@Renickulous LOL, not every job provides health insurance and every person that doesn't work won't have employer provided insurance.

@Renickulous Nope. My company does not offer insurance. Fast food and retail worers don't work 40 hours.

@Renickulous What about self employed? There are millions of them from Uber drivers, Truck drivers to consultants and freelancers. They are the hardest hit.
I have good insurance through my employer but it cost them $12K a year for it. Not everyone can afford that.

@Renickulous You've got to be kidding. Do you mean to tell me J.C. Penny's or Dillard's or dozens and dozens of retail companies all opened with the express purpose of providing jobs only to high school students?? And fast food, who is supposed to work while students are in school?

@Renickulous I think everyone no matter what job or no job should have healthcare. Just because someone chooses to do a job you deem "less worthy" does not make them any less of a person.

@Renickulous Everyone deserves healthcare!!!! NO "qualifiers"

@Renickulous yes.

@Renickulous yes. No matter who you are, healthcare should be a basic right.

Some of the most creative & world changing people have died young for lack of healthcare.

Ironically, all of the Americans who were against Obamacare are now asking all other Americans to pay for a socialised wall.

@Renickulous I also have health insurance to cover things that aren't basic healthcare. Yes, basic healthcare should be a reasonable expectation of citizens in any good country. But America isn't a good country as far as healthcare goes. Half of your taxes go on the military, yet you can't look after your own people. Enjoy your freedom!

I'll stick with social democracy, thanks. We try to care for our vulnerable people.

@Renickulous do civil engineers owe us safe roads? Do teachers owe our kids a good education? These are socialised benefits, & they allow people & businesses equal opportunities to thrive. I think education should also be a right.

The world is a big place, & America is not the greatest or best-run country. You have areas that are as economically devastated as third world countries. You almost caused a second great depression just a decade ago. Perhaps you should be studying how other countries are run.

@Renickulous [pbs.org]

@Renickulous dude you're welcome to your opinion, but I'll just stay here with my democracy & healthcare, thanks. Everybody uses roads, everybody needs the law & law enforcement, everybody needs teachers, everybody needs doctors & nurses, everybody needs education.

You think you don't need healthcare. You might be young, or from a well to-do family, so you don't need any help. But maybe your sister (or someone else you possibly care about) will need healthcare someday, & then she'll be begging on Gofundme.

It takes no great amount of thinking to decide "I deserve more of my money!" But it takes maturity to think "I'd like Adam's mother to get that life saving operation that she needs, & wouldn't it be great if a little of my money helped her.

Your health system has been bloated far longer than you realise, & it's just another example of greed gone wrong in America. I feel your pain, but you really don't understand the point of view of people who see the country, and the world, as one tribe.

@Renickulous if all you think about is ME ME ME, my money! Then you start a race to the bottom, which is what you see in America & much of the world. If everyone (or as many as possible) is healthy & well educated the economy flourishes. Do people who are bankrupted by healthcare
& die young add to the GDP? Can people whose money is all going towards their wife's operation afford their mortgage?

@Renickulous being nice is the reason. We are a social species, & being nice is how we have succeeded over predators, disease & a universe that is 99.9% hostile to life. You're stuck in a very right wing American way of thinking that has resulted in social tragedy.

Obamacare was run badly. We get it. That doesn't mean that universal healthcare is a bad thing. But you don't listen, & you don't want to hear another perspective.

The science supports universal healthcare as good for a society's performance, & it is common sense. If everyone is healthy, they make more money & spend more money.

No doctor owes anything to anyone, the government is simply one of many employers. Nobody is forcing doctors to care for patients. Only a stupid person would think that.

@Renickulous every right is simply an arbitrary idea. You don't actually have a right to guns, life or roads, but everyone decides to make it a right. That's what makes a right. It used to be a right to own slaves in America, but that was changed.

Please don't make the mistake of confusing socialist democracy with socialist communism. The two things are different, not the same. America has always treated them the same because of Truman, as far as I know. But that's one of your cultural blindspots.

Science does prove good and bad, because they both have measurable results in wealth, suicide statistics, health statistics, property damage statistics etc. It's measurable, right?

As part of a society, your individual wants and needs are immaterial. Society doesn't care. But people choose how society is run by voting. So what you want or don't use is of very little importance to policy on an individual basis.

I've never heard this. I tried to Google for information and found nothing. From its earliest days, Obamacare was modeled in many ways after Romneycare which was implemented in 2006 in Massachusetts. There are numerous online references to be found.

@DeStijl
Prior to Romneycare it was based on the Heritage Foundation's model.

@DeStijl Well maybe because the internet has been bogged down with all things Obamacare but I clearly remember seeing back around 2012 but anyway

@dokala Yes, the Heritage Foundation model was Romney's program. He considered it the greatest achievement of his years as governor.

@Renickulous No, our healthcare is not better. The US pays more for poorer out comes.

@Renickulous
Not so much. We all can't see the preeminent surgeon in X field at Johns Hopkins. Some have to make do with the Michael Cohens of medicine.

@Renickulous
I'm not advocate for socialism, but what history? You mean authoritarianism? Huge difference. Also, what's unamerican about forcing healthier? The founding fathers liked it [forbes.com]

@Renickulous
So binary. Obamacare is a law, not healthcare. The individual mandate is one aspect of it, which you are hung up on and mistake for healthcare. We now have patient advocates, treatment has to show improvement, pharmaceutical transparency, etc.

What about every other industrialized country providing healthcare as well as countless other developing countries? You conveniently leave them out. None of them are trying to take it away. They see the value and are benefitting from it while we are being left behind from a productivity and social standpoint. Just like how Utah realized it's cheaper to house the homeless rather than let them wander around, healthcare is cheaper and better for the population when it's available and providing preventative care, which you can't get in the ER.

You are parroting tired taking points. You are unprepared for this dialogue.

Health Care has become and remains a for-profit industry in the US. Given the Drug manufacturers, hospital facilities and medical professionals … it’s too powerful an industry to fight. Politicians that do, loose to industry-funded candidates both within and outside their parties…