@Renickulous I'm not giving any magic powers to a vagina. Any fool knows that the answer is "human." It's just that most fools who ask the question are bible believers that somehow want to hook you into an abortion argument.

@Renickulous Save that for another discussion or help the GOP fund that poor child once it is born. They don't do that.

@Renickulous No, it's because this was not an abortion discussion and I think women should have control over their own bodies. Said it all before. Not going to say it again. I will say that Kermit Gosnell is rightly doing life in prison because he and his staff murdered children. In between that and Susie wanting an abortion once she found she was pregnant is hypothetical and useless to discuss because it is not a real situation needing thought or input. "Let's suppose this or that" doesn't cut it with me. Susie still needs control over her own body. She's not a baby factory.

@Renickulous You would think a doctor and a pack of pills would be the least expensive action on that one. Pills are cheap and abortion is not free.

@Renickulous You don’t seem to be able to recognise sarcasm either (@chucklesIII)

@Renickulous Of course not. There's no substance to poke a hole through.

@Renickulous The species is human but it is not a human being. It's in a pre human state. Like an egg is a pre chicken.

@Renickulous Neither does calling an egg a chicken.

@Renickulous You are, without question, the troll, as can be seen by your consistent behavior on all the posts. Fortunately, you don't get to define what is and isn't "murder." A human embryo is not a person. An actual human being can "be" without attaching itself to the lining of a womb. We can argue semantics all day long, but the fact is that you can't force a woman to act as an incubator any more than you can force your neighbor to donate a kidney to you.

@Renickulous, as an "incubator" who had to make the very difficult and very painful decision to terminate a pregnancy in its seventh week, being judged by someone whose gender absolves them of ever being forced into such a situation means less than nothing to me. While there may be a few women who can have an abortion as easily as getting a haircut, they are the exception, rather than the rule. There are a myriad of reasons for needing to terminate a pregnancy, and to reduce them to a mere "inconvenience" demonstrates both ignorance and a lack of compassion to the person who would judge women. This is not an issue that can be painted with a broad morality brush. At what point a cluster of cells becomes a future president is not something one person, especially a male person, should get to decide.

@Renickulous, using the word "sexism" when the issue is actually biology is dishonest. I have seen you use this tactic before when arguing, so no big surprise that you'd do it here. You can have all the opinions you like, but you don't get to make the decision for someone because, biologically speaking, you don't have a dog in the race. A human fetus is human, it is not destined to become any other species. But this fact is not relevant to whether anybody, other than the person in possession of the uterus in question, has a right to speak about how that uterus is, or isn't, utilized.

@Renickulous Bingo, dude! However, not based on your genitalia. Based on your lack of a specific reproductive organ. Grow yourself a uterus and a set of ovaries, and I will take you seriously, your winkie notwithstanding.

@Renickulous *cognitive

@tkcoy Well, go ahead and knock yourself out with the ad hominem attacks all you like. I can ignore them as long as you can fling them. I say "yes" to 1-4. I say "I don't know" to 5. Anyone who is, might be, or has ever been able to gestate has a say. I don't attempt to make rules regarding the use of your testicles for the same reason that I argue for reproductive rights for women. This fact keeps me from possessing a most interesting necklace.

@tkcoy Seeing any threat, veiled or not in anything I said takes a lot of imagination. There was no threat. Not even implied, so, sorry, but this is not the point where it would help your argument to try to play the victim card. You know nothing about me, therefore, you don't get to decide whether I have a dog in the race. My gender by birth is my dog. Feel free to insult me if I pretend to know something I don't, but admitting that I don't know something is always a valid answer.

@tkcoy I can se how on who is in the habit of considering himself the victim might perceive the comment as a threat. Rational people, however, will simply see it as the eye roll at internet trolls that it was intended to be.

@tkcoy More like it takes me a couple days to notice you or bother to reply. Actually, I've already expended far more effort than your comments warrant. I lost interest in you or this topic a long time ago. Those who antagonize for entertainment are pretty much the most uninteresting children on the planet. I've moved on.

@tkcoy Oh, cry me a river! Do you also go up to people of color and tell them that their lack of interest in your opinion makes you feel racially marginalized? Apparently, based on your harassment of me, this is something you would do. I really do not care if you call me a sexist. The fact that you, a white male, dare to call any woman a sexist for any reason says far more about you than it says about me. I seriously don't mind being referred to as sexist, bigot, hypocrite or any other names spewed by incels. It's a badge of honor. Now, back down to momma's basement with you!

@Renickulous , Nice try but an egg is not a chicken. What is in the egg eventually becomes a chicken. Unless it's fried. In which case, it becomes yummy.

@Renickulous I see. I'll think it over while I'm eating an apple. Got to remember to spit the trees out.

@Renickulous , my fingernail is made of human DNA too. My fingernail is a human being

@Renickulous Is that a new criteria we're adding?

@Renickulous , so that brings us back to a human fetus. That's not an entire human being either, is it?

Still dosnt change that all women should have a choice. Men's bodies are not legislated by the government like womens

@Allikat We share the same opinion on this. Can you understand how others may not share that opinion?

@indirect76 as far as I'm concerned they don't understand the opinion that we share why should we understand there's? As well you know these are most Pro birthers they're not pro-abortion and they are not pro-life. I also don't see a whole lot of pregnant women that are being told that they should have abortions or what to do while pregnant. This is a war between genatila that no one will win.

@Renickulous I don’t think anyone should be killed, innocent or guilty.

@Renickulous No. killing a baby is not OK. What on earth would make you think that?

@Renickulous That’s not what an athiest is. At least, that is not my usage of the word. An athiest simple does not believe in a god. No more. No less.

You’re talking about the moral dilemma of an unwanted pregnancy. The fetus has a right to live. The women has a right to govern what happens to her body. We have a conflict here.

I understand your position that the rights of the fetus supersedes that of the woman’s. Now, can you understand that I feel the woman’s right supersedes that of the fetus’s?

@Renickulous This is not calculus. You can no more prove that ‘fetus rights’ > ‘womens rights’ any more than ‘country music’ > ‘polka music’. We’re talking about an opinion on a moral dilemma, no? I could elaborate on my opinion, but it ultimately boils down to: That is how I feel.

@Renickulous Again, this is not math. I’ve chosen #2 as being worse.

To your second point, if someone feels god, that is a perfectly fine reason to believe in god.

To your third point, that’s good that you were able to change your mind. It at least shows that you have an open mind about it.

@Renickulous There is no factually worse. That’s my whole point. What is factually worse, country or polka?

You may not like it, but you have an opinion on this dilemma. You don’t have a fact on it.

@Renickulous Survival is not the only goal. If it were I would agree with your conclusion.

@Renickulous OK my friend. I can see we aren’t making much progress here. I tried to be honest and respect your view on this. Thanks for your time. I’m sure you’ll want to have the last word, so:

HIja'!

My question now; is being aborted an honorable death for a Klingon to go to Stovokor? I’d bet two pieces of gold pressed latinum Stovokor is littered knee deep in aborted Klingon fetuses. Short life. No prospering.

@tkcoy the fun of doing this little mental exercise in conversation with someone who's anti-choice is as soon as they try to weasel out of it, you shout "BANG!", then in a normal voice explain that they hesitated, and therefore, as stated in the original premise, everyone died.
And then you run them through it again.
And when they twist and turn, just keep asking them "Would you save the baby?"

@Renickulous never said anything about semen. I said fertilised embryos. All viable, frozen, ready for transportation.
But this is irrelevant, because BANG! You hesitated, prevaricated, argued the point, so everyone dies.

@Renickulous fertilized embryo are eggs ready to be put into humans and the fetus is a human fetus unless she (the mother) has been abducted by aliens.

@Renickulous that’s what’s great about America, about freedom, you are allowed your opinion and I’m allowed mine.

@Renickulous all the time. It's standard procedure in fertility clinics. You fertilise the eggs in vitro, check that they are undergoing normal cell division (ie. are viable embryos) then flash freeze them in liquid nitrogen.

But again, BANG! You hesitated, asked a question that you really should have known the answer to if you're going to hold forth about reproductive rights, and everyone died.

So, would you let the screaming baby die to save the 100 fertilised embryos?

@Renickulous So, you'd leave a baby to die, screaming in fear and pain in its last moments.
Well, there goes the moral authority of your argument.

@Renickulous you do know that comparing people to Nazis means you've lost the argument, right?

Edit: unless they're actual far right white supremacists, of course. Then they are Nazis.

@Renickulous you've already admitted that you'd let a baby die to save fertilised embryos. I find that position morally repugnant, and borderline sociopathic.

@Renickulous I think you'll find that ignoring information that doesn't fit with your preconceived notions is the diametric opposite of science.

You would let a baby die in pain to save what might potentially become a baby, but at this moment is unable to experience any external stimuli.

That is simply awful, and I think you need to re-examine your position on the basis of new information. That is, after all, the essence of science.

@MrBeelzeebubbles on the plus side, I find you even more attractive after reading your comments... ??

@Renickulous it's a potential human until it's born. Simple.

This is why the dilemma I posted is not a dilemma for me. You grab the baby and run, because it's an actual human life, not a potential human life.

@Remi Awww, shucks (blushes).

@Renickulous Potentially human.
This question shows how little you know about basic biology. The biological definition of a species is that two individuals of the appropriate sexes are of the same species when they can produce fertile offspring.
By the strictly scientific definition, all individuals are 'potentially' a species until they reach sexual maturity.

@Renickulous by the scientific definition, not proveably. Which is why you shouldn't use words you don't really understand.

@Renickulous No, it's not.
You are wrong.
You need to look up the definition of a species. Do it now. Type 'definition of a species' into Google, and you will find out that I am correct, and you are not.

@tkcoy so how far back do you want to go ?. To the Monty Python parody of the Roman catholic church "every sperm is sacred". Every woman should have control over her own body and that includes abortion. No woman does this lightly and they should get our sympathy not criticism.
Many countries still have the death penalty including some states in your own country so are they not human ?

@Renickulous Of course a human foetus is composed of human DNA unless it is Ripley's alien or a hybrid pig human that Chinese scientists are playing about with at the moment. That's what I mean by it's a ridiculous question. Whether women have the right to have control of their own bodies is an entirely different question.
I'm not sure what your motivation is unless it is to try to make women feel guilty but if you insist then the question should be when is a foetus viable.

Millions of embryos are miscarried every year and if this is caused by the woman taking drugs or even from extremely vigorous exercise then under your reasoning the woman is guilty of manslaughter. Now that is ridiculous. .

@Renickulous You didn't answer my question. Under your reasoning is a woman who by her actions has a miscarriage guilty of manslaughter.

@Renickulous So it is all about your definition of morality. Actually your argument and question is specious. A bit like the old chestnut "when did you stop beating your wife?". Get a good dictionary and look up the meaning of human. You couldn't say "a human" because up to around 21 weeks an embryo/foetus is not viable . You could call it a potential human but that doesn't carry the same weight.

OK you do not agree with abortion , you are entitled to your opinion but to try to justify your position with nothing more than semantics doesn't work I'm afraid.

@Bobby9 @tkcoy, I should have been more clear. @Renickulous can have his opinion all he wants, but he will never be forced to provide his body for the benefit of something else. I would be forced to if he gets his way. That's not ok. You can't force me to donate organs or give blood, but people like Renickulous want to force me to donate my uterus and all the other strains on my health that go with a pregnancy. How does that make sense? I'm sorry, but women's opinions matter more in this case. Men are welcome to provide input, but until they can carry the fetus themselves, they just don't have the capacity to understand how big of a deal this is. Hell, I barely understand it because I've never been pregnant or given birth, but I have the capacity to and the thought of an unplanned pregnancy is terrifying. I do all I can to prevent it, but I know it could happen. I don't know what I would do in that situation, but I'm glad I have the choice to make for what's best for me. Me, the already living, breathing person.
I wonder if Renickulous's great need to argue forced birth is due to trolling for points or a perhaps deep seated unconscious hatred of women. I wonder if he thinks the women who have unplanned pregnancies are sluts or whores or something and therefore deserve what they get. Maybe they should have kept their legs closed, that kind of BS. Hmm...

@Renickulous How is it not forced if I don't want to become pregnant? And if I'm doing everything I can to not become pregnant, how is that not an accident if I do? The egg I shed every month I menstruate is human, ejaculated sperm is human, a fetus is human. One of those could potentially become a living breathing person yes, but not without my help. And if I don't want to give that help I shouldn't be forced to. Just like I shouldn't be forced to give someone a kidney or my blood for a live saving procedure.

@Renickulous I would say convenience is too easy of a word. It's not just an inconvenience to get pregnant it's life changing. Some people cannot handle that. wouldn't you rather have someone making the conscious decision of I am not fit to parent or in a good place in my life to be a parent so I am not going to be one than to just have a bunch of kids? Please don't tell me that you think people who don't want to ever get pregnant should never have sex. And you didn't answer my question, is it OK for me to say to you you have to give me a kidney or I'm going to die? Because saying that I have to go through a pregnancy is the exact same thing. You or I would be sacrificing our bodily autonomy in that situation for the benefit of someone else.

@Renickulous I answered your question, you didn't answer mine. And when did I say a child wasn't a responsibility? That's the point. If I don't think I'm fit to take on that responsibility, I'm going to be responsible and not have it.

@tkcoy a country is a little different than a single person. Not sure how you think that's sexist.

@Renickulous you missed the point. I'm not saying anything about how dangerous pregnancy can br. I'm saying you telling me I have to provide my body for the benefit of a fetus (because if I don't, it will die) is the same thing as me telling you you have to give me your kidney because without it I will die.

@Renickulous you're mistaking the forced part. I'm referring to forced birth not conception. No birth control method is 100% guaranteed. And you still haven't answered my question. Ready to give up that kidney yet?

@Renickulous you are talking about forcing someone to have birth when they didn't choose to get pregnant.

@Renickulous It doesn't matter how the fetus got there. You are saying I have to sacrifice my bodily autonomy for someone else. How many times do I have to repeat it? It is the same as me saying I'm going to take your kidney. You made that, you have rights, I have rights, but I can't take it from you unless you willingly give it. You're saying that fetus can take nourishment from me against my will because reasons... explain to me how that's different.

@tkcoy you missed my point. You're saying the draft is the same thing as being forced to supply nutrients to a fetus. Just, no. During my years as active duty military, we were taught that the mission, the whole, is greater than any one individual. You may be asked to sacrifice for your country, but your sacrifice is for the greater good, not one person. He is saying I have to sacrifice myself for one person. Not the same thing. And I'm sorry, but I still maintain that men should have less seats at the table on this one. I didn't say none, I said less. Until they can carry a fetus themselves, they just don't have the same things at stake.

@Renickulous Says you.

@Renickulous admitting ? Don't be so fast Claudious ! I support abortion . Now answer my question ? Y u ask ?

@Renickulous so ? What's your point ? It has potentials to become human . Great . Whats your point ??

@Renickulous human and human in progress / potentials is not the same .

@Renickulous and ? Ok , I still don't understand your point or the point of this post . U came here to say what ,? That an embryo or a fetus belongs to the human species ? U came here to argue in what point should be viewed as a human ? And then what ? What is your point ? What's your argument ?

@Renickulous fantastic . " human being " . ????????????? its clear to me that there is no further need to engage . Thanks for clarifying !

This. By the logic of the OP, men are genocidal maniacs every time they have a wank.

@Renickulous A fetus is human like an arm is human. Both have some value. Both have DNA. Both have blood. Neither can live on their own. Both can be lost with regard to their value to save the whole. Every fetus that leads to a live born baby should be cared for and wanted by the parents.

@Renickulous I HAVE answered that question, repeatedly.
A fetus has NO rights until it's born.
That's in the US Constitution. As I have pointed out to you before.

If I've got anything inside me, and I want it out, it doesn't matter what it is, and I can have it removed.
It's not illegal to kill a parasite.

You keep trying to say I can't defend my position, when that is all I've done since we started this dance.
You are the one with shoddy reasoning and a completely lack of facts.
You are the one with all the feelings.
Look at the words you're choosing. Your "arguments" have emotion written all over them.
Again, you can't debate for shit.

@Renickulous The lives of women DO trump the potential lives of unborn humans. As they should.
The unborn have NO value which can or should be considered more than that of women.
Never have, never will.
Abortion is a perfectly acceptable option for some women.

@Renickulous I never claimed I am a scientist.
How I "feel" about humanity has nothing to do with this debate.
I haven't stated anything which is not factual.
You, on the other hand, haven't presented anything that disputes anything I've said. Not one thing.

Abortion is an acceptable option for some women.

@Renickulous I think you are being a wee touch literal here, "resembling/have the resemblance of being human in appearance, this does NOT mean that a deformity PRECLUDES humanness by any means.
If one takes a look at the human embryo during the various stages of gestation ( development) it resembles many other embryos of other species, e.g. at one stage it closely resembles an embryonic chicken.

@Renickulous I'd hazard to say that numerous years as a Mid-wife delivering HUMAN children as babies, 164 in total, would give anyone a better than average knowledge and understanding, wouldn't you?
BTW, considering that the Mother to be is HUMAN to ALL intents and purposes then, of course, chances are that she IS carrying within her womb an EMBRYONIC human being but such being is NOT considered to be a viable being UNTIL it is able to survive OUTSIDE the mother's womb with or without medical INTERVENTION.
Ergo, you original question/posting is as inane as if you were asking, for example, "Is water wet, and why is IT wet?"

@Renickulous I already have in the response to which you have replied.
IF you have problems with reading/comprehension, etc, I'm only to happy to recommend some very EASY to understand, simple worded publications, etc, that MAY help you rectify that difficulty.

you can't even spell fetus.

@AntaresRose FOETUS is the correct British/Australian spelling of the word, it is also the correct Latin spelling as used in the Textbooks I studied from during my Nursing Career.
In case you haven't noticed I actually LIVE in Australia where we use the Queen's English.

@TriphidI have some friends in Australia that I adore. I remember you I had you blocked before.you criticize our rules, culture, and laws, use our language. Your queen is is a sprinkling little gem who is the richest woman in the world. She is for you to enjoy, not me. I could give a rat's ass about your royalty allegiances. They are yours to enjoy.

@Triphid, @Renickulous the fetus is a human. That does not change anything.