Proper health care? Since when was circumcision done for someone's health? That is like saying, hey, I got a tattoo today to cure my skin cancer! Not many rational ADULTS would let anyone near their penis to cut off the foreskin . . . . yet people think it is alright to do it to babies. In fact, why not let an adult make that decision, instead of FORCING it onto a baby?

@THHA

1. it is a medical procedure, and thus should be performed by a professional. ( by your definition breast implants should be done at home too)
2. [webmd.com]

@THHA because doctors will tell you it is less painful and full recovery is more likely at a young age. Also it's cleaner and you lower your risk for UTI's

" doctors will tell you it is less painful and full recovery is more likely at a young age. Also it's cleaner and you lower your risk for UTI's" Sorry, but that is not the reason it is done. That is just excuses.

Not only that, it is really just the same kind of thing as female genital mutilation. I suppose you are all for that too.

@THHA no it's not The same as female genitalia mutilation.
Women lose sensation men don't. It's cleaner, lower chance for UTI, diseases, and some types of cancer. But by all means your kids can have stinky elephant trunk dicks.

@THHA "it's just excuses" no it's the reason you don't wait.

It IS same KIND of thing as female genital mutilation. It is mutilation, and, IF as religio-nazis believe, man is made in the image of god, they are certainly fucking that up. There is no reason for it, and the fact that half the world gets by without it bears me out on that. It is just a stupid, barbaric practice, nothing more.

@OwlInASack I would concede if I hadn't read 10 seperate studies on ebsco last year. That all basically say the same thing. So regardless of the Ozzie study. Also I have several friends that aren't circumcised they coincidentally are the only male's I've known to get UTI's.

I agree it should only be performed clinically. That is the problem, doctors are refusing to do it and the cost is too high.

@THHA Half the world also gets by on malnutrition. Studies show there is a benefit but there are also risks. A simple risk to benefit analysis would yield the benefit out weigh the risk.
It's not mutilation anymore than any body alteration procedure is. Nose jobs, boob jobs, vasectomies etc...

@OwlInASack I only offer anecdotes as weak support not as solid evidence.
The studies I read showed a strong increase in certain STI's but not all. In fact a few STI's it showed a decrease. UTI was increased in order of magnitude.
Regardless of that the fact is they should have been able to get the procedure done but felt forced to do it themselves.

The procedure is done on people who have no choice in the matter, and it is done on them without their consent, it is irreversible, and, it is also obviously life threatening, just the thing you support for doing to those who have no say in the matter.
That's forced mutilation, and I have yet to hear any reasonable argument from you . . . . just like the rest of the religious bull shit, all based off of barbaric ancient customs, which came from people who knew less about the world than your average fourth grader . . . .

@THHA continuing to prove your ignorance. It is reversible. It is not life threatening when done by a medical professional. It confers benefits. It only happened because of a lack of medical support. I get you're not just atheist anti-religion perhaps you should live in a country like Spain that doesn't believe in Freedom of religion.

Continuing to prove your ignorance. It is NOT reversible, it will NOT return to its original pristine form. It IS life threatening even when done by a medical professional, and people have died even when it was done by your so-call professionals. (Lie on - 100+ circumcision deaths each year in United States - [circinfo.org] Even IF it conferred benefits, the bad far outweighs the good. Perhaps you should live in a country like Iceland that doesn't believe in idiot religions.

@THHA I debate thst with an actual nonbiased study
[ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

You yourself said "It is not life threatening when done by a medical professional." I proved that wrong. The procedure is done on people who have no choice in the matter, and it is done on them without their consent, it is irreversible, and, it is also obviously life threatening, just the thing you support for doing to those who have no say in the matter.
That's forced mutilation, and I have yet to hear any reasonable argument from you . . . . just like the rest of the religious bull shit, all based off of barbaric ancient customs, which came from people who knew less about the world than your average fourth grader . . . .

@THHA so we are clear of 50,000 uncircumcised boys 2 died from complications of UTI, and a slew of other issues, 0 of 100,00 died. <- my study done by data collected through army hospitals.
Yet you hold the position. That's fine for you. However not for the people who make the statistically correct choice which happens to coincide with their religious beliefs.

I think we're done with this circular arguement.

It's not a circular argument when it comes to religio-nazis who mistreat babies all because they have some stupid tradition invented by people not to far from cave men in mentality, still doing the same dumb ass bullshit. I call it what it is. Mutilation. Torture. Taking advantage of someone when they have no say in the matter. That is exactly what it is.

@THHA Yet scientifically proven to be the correct choice by statistically lowering life long mortality.. see circular. wax on wax off

WRONG . . . What countries have the longest lifespan . . . from the CIA Fact Book, you know, the government you hold to be so factual . . . . [cia.gov]

Percent circumcized in Japan . . .
[photius.com]

So Japan, with less than 1% circumcised has one of the longest lifespans . . . that kind of blows that hypothesis out of the water, especially since the US lands in the 48th spot . . . Ha ha ha . . . keep trying and keep lying . . . .

@THHA holy shit youre not just ignorant you have no concept of colinearity, causality, or anything. Only someone with absolutely no knowledge of statics would try to compare two unlike groups and claim a correlation when too many of the impacting factors on lifespan aren't even the same. It's not like the Japanese and French both have a high frequency of the G gene the one responsible for increasing your likelihood to be a centennial, nor is the Japanese diet of Fish and Vegtables with rice comparable to the American diet of Fast Food, not to mention countless other variations in the cultures that contribute to lifespan.

Agree the politicians that made it so that religious people can't get proper healthcare should get the death penalty.

@Biosteelman I tried reading your comment several different ways.
It made no sense to me. I have no idea what you're trying to say.

@BohoHeathen how can you do that to a kid?

@bohoheathen imho, it is not manslaughter it is murder.

@BohoHeathen A truly TRAGIC and completely avoidable and unnecessary MURDER to say the very least.

@Triphid A terrible thing for sure, but still manslaughter. Probably involuntary too.

@indirect76 Since circumcision is really only done as a rule as part of religious laws or for aesthetic reasons decided upon by parents then IMHO it IS not Involuntary by definition but Intended and therefore should considered as being at least Murder in the Second Degree.

@Triphid I won’t defend the involuntary part. I was more speaking on what the charge will actually be. I could have been more clear.

Intent is definitely key here.

@indirect76 the lack of proper healthcare is the key here. Just like coat hanger abortions.