I agree with what you say but unfortunately not everything we do is good. Steven Weinberg said it well: “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”

This is too simplistic to be an accurate description of either group.

Yes.

You can best judge the character of a person from the actions they take while they believe NO ONE is watching.

I think most religious people think, for example, that murder is wrong, and don't need a holy book to tell them that, but I think they like the validation. In fact I think it gives many of them such a level of certainty it is difficult for them to see some issues from other points of view. Then there's the ones who interpret scriptures to support their bias and prejudice and that combination of prejudice and certainty is a scary one. However this is not to say all religious people are like this, for example by their sheer number the majority of those who support separation of church and state are theists. Many theists are supporters of issues supported by nontheists.

It is unfair to categorize all believers as only doing good due to their beliefs in gods.

What is good for one is not so for another.

It goes both ways. We don't blame the evil forces for doing bad things! It's only human nature

I tend to agree with you. I believe it was Christopher Hitchens who said "show me one good thing that cannot be done without religion. You can't. It's impossible."

Have been a bad person.....at the time thats the way I saw myself..not for wanting to be one, just too weak to know how not to be...due to being dyslexic, before such was reconized, I was a failure in school, some made fun, or only shied away, and I felt un-liked. And....I learned why I was such a failure and "bad" person....I was "born" a sinner....the way of my parents taught me that I could only be a "good" person if I believed, had faith, and submitted. Only then could I be a good person.....I just couldn't ever get there. ....and I really let it fuck up a good portion of my younger life. I happen to think that most all people want to be "good", fair, benevolent......but that you are sinning if you feel good about yourself. ...that you are not responsible for the good you do in your life. That credit belongs to a "controller"......what a junvenile way of thinking....anyway,....I'm rambling again....good luck with the rest of your life.

Excellent observation! I have been helping an elderly couple from the islands work on their ford pickup. First, I installed a new alternator, and that was a challenge because the gentleman lost the bolts when he removed it (I wasn't in the picture yet)! I'm a packrat so I had some bolts that worked. Next, I installed a started. Took 5 hours to get 3 bolts out and back in. Whew! And it rained in the middle just to keep it interesting. Last night I put a new battery in it. When it started, the a.c. compressor is now making a terrible racket! I think that may be next! Anyway, the gentleman keeps trying to pay me but I'm only in it for the karma!

Right according to what?

Absolutely! Good statements!

I Agree with you, although we are not perfect. But I agree when you say we act in some way not because of heaven but because it's the right thing to do.

Where do people who consider themselves just ' secular ' fit in this discussion on why and how we do good?

Funny how that works isn't it ?

I never thought of it this way...

I don't know that I agree with it, but that seems to be the argument for non-believers to feel morally and ethically superior to believers.

Yeah... not necessarily, but yeah.

i suppose hitler was quite sincere. how about rump & 90% of all the phony parasitic bastards in govt?

This statement is way to stereotypical.