a first-trimester fetus is not a child. it has no functional nerve endings. it is a clump of cells. if you happen to want a child, then emotionally, to you, it's a child, but scientifically, it is NOT a child. it's a very low-stage fetus. conflating a living, breathing, BORN person with a clump of cells invalidates your argument right off the bat.

meanwhile, my objection to the death penalty has nothing to do with the character of the condemned individual. it doesn't even have to do with the shocking number of people on death row whose innocence has been proven by dna. it's not even about how it is cheaper (and crueler) to house a prisoner for a lifetime than to kill him or her. it is not about them. it's about us. if we decide someone deserves to die, how are we different from someone who decided that about someone else? the difference is twofold: 1. we disagree with that person about who should die. 2. we get together as a group and make our decision "legally." should we not be better than that?

g

Pro-abortion is a right wing/buybull thumper talking point.
I am not pro-abortion, I am pro choice. If you get educated on abortion you would know that it is one of the most difficult decisions women have to make and one of last resort.
We also live in a country that’s ultimately run by men. Insurance will pay for Viagra but until the ACA birth control was not covered.
A similar argument is made against the right. How can you be pro-gun and pro-life at the same time.
The point is.. since your a man, keep your opinions out of my body.
I’m Canadian we haven’t had the death penalty in a very long time like most of the developed world. It’s a issue I struggle with as some of the crimes are so heinous.

I firmly support abortion on demand.
No woman should ever be forced to gestate any pregnancy she doesn't want,
for any reason, at any point in that pregnancy.
No pregnancy, in the history of pregnancy, has ever been guaranteed to result
in a live birth.
The unborn hold no intrinsic value and are "owed" no rights. Ever.
No one, male or female, has the right to interfere with what any woman chooses
to do with her own body. No one else is remotely qualified to determine whose
reasons are "valid" and whose are not. Fuck what anyone else thinks.
It's NONE of their business.

There is NO correlation between abortion and the death penalty.
That is a conflated "argument", and holds no validity.

I'm sorry but as they say, you don't have a dog in this fight. Reproductive rights are women's rights.

Kinda like being pro-life (antiabortion) and want to condemn women who have an abortion to death.
Not much logic in this thought process if you ask me.

Because abortion is none of my business
A mass murderer is

Get back to us when your brother raped you and you are 12 and pregnant.

No hate here directed at you, only sadness for your ignorance of the subject of abortion. I've had two abortions in my life. The first one was due to being raped at 16 and becoming pregnant. I have no regrets what so ever for that abortion and never will. The second was when I was married and looking forward to my pregnancy until finding out that my fetus was not developing correctly. The heart and lungs were growing outside the body cavity and the baby would have died within minutes of birth had I continued the pregnancy. This pregnancy was wanted by my husband and I, but we decided to have the abortion so our baby would not suffer anymore than it had to upon birth. Men especially, have no right to tell any woman what she can and cannot do with her own body. As for the death penalty, I am against State sponsored murder period. There have been innocent people executed in this Country and for me, that is murder. Our justice system is not working when it is executing innocent people due to bad lawyers.

When you really boil it down and look at the people who are pushing the anti-abortion laws, it is more about controlling and oppressing women, mainly the ones who are poor, than it is about saving the lives of fetuses. They are hypocrites who don't give a damn about the children who are born poor and unwanted.Their positions on other issues related to the health and welfare of children who are born poor reveals that very clearly.

There are so many terrible things that happen even when people desperately wanted these children.

Quote
I remember saying, “What can a baby like mine do? Does she just sleep all the time?” The doctor winced when I said that, and he responded, “Babies like yours are generally not comfortable enough to sleep.” That’s when I knew for sure."
[thecut.com]

Abortion is mercy sometimes.

It is not a decision for religious people to make,

It's a decision for the pregnant woman and whoever she decides to consult.

This just in: You can feel differently about different issues.

For the record, I'm not pro-abortion. Would never get one personally. Not many people are. I'm pro-choice. It's just none of my goddamn business.

I'm also against the death penalty, but for worse reasons. The vast majority of criminals don't deserve it, and for the fraction of a percent that do, I prefer less humane treatment. Permanent solitary confinement is far worse than death.

No one is pro abortion within the context of killing children(save rare mentally ill people). Many are pro abortion in relation to a womans right to end a pregnancy that threatens her life. There are many restrictions within legal abortion depending on the state were you live. So generalizing people as pro child killing in relation to abortion is incorrect and simplistic. Any one who has any knowledge or context knows it is not an easy decision for a woman to make. You want to eliminate abortion in America? Support universal comprehensive health care and sexual education for children and young adults. I do support a womans right to access to abortion not just for the freedom of her body but also due to the fact that our culture and government fails so often at actually applying logic and reason to solve issues such as why abortion is even a needed option. As for the Death Penalty I oppose it for one overriding reason; innocent people are killed by the state. Not to mention the fact that even now the Supreme Court has basically legalized torture of the condemned and require they provide the burden of outlining the method of their death to avoid such torture.

Well then... of all the people I know, I would guess they are split fairly evenly between pro- and anti- death penalty. On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge, no one I know is pro-abortion, though the majority of people I associate with are pro-choice. Pro-choice and pro-abortion are in no way the same thing, but the best part is that, you and I being men, it is none of our gotdamm business what women do with their bodies.
Now that that is out of the way, I'll move on to your tags. As the name of this website is Agnostic.com, it would stand to reason that the majority of people here do not believe in any vengeful gods, so the threat of #hell doesn't really carry much weight in these parts, but keep trying my friend, I'm sure someone somewhere will be swayed by your somewhat warped logic. Have a cheery day.

Many people (and, I think, most non-religious people) will agree that at the moment of fertilization, that being should not have the full right-to-life of a human being. Most people will also agree that just before the moment of birth, that being has as much right-to-life as anyone. Somewhere in between, we all draw a line. And we have to accept that everyone won't agree with the line we draw for ourselves. But the needs of society insist we draw a line. Unfortunately, there's no magic answer. I don't think science can even answer this one. It's just something that we have to agree on as a society. Where do we draw a line that best balances the rights of each individual being in the equation?

I trust the government to accurately decide who’s guilty about as much as I trust them to decide who is mandated to raise kids, or which race gets to own another. Which is: not at all. I can’t tell if you’re trying to argue anti choice or pro death penalty but either way your argument needs some work. The right wing view of both of these issues is unfairly stifling the black community more than anything else. Making sure poor women don’t have a choice but to raise more kids is only a way to punish them, keep them poor and producing bodies for the wars at home and abroad. The death penalty is disproportionately acted out upon for black people and with the number of other innocent black people we’ve found n had to release after 20 years in prison, you should realize that the guy screaming about his innocence on death row could easily be you.

Personally I’m not 100% against the death penalty in principle, but the crime has to be heinous and the proof has to be air tight; and our government or indeed any human institution has proven themselves unwilling or incapable of holding themselves to the standard I would have to have to support it. The instinct to use it as revenge as if we feel it brings justice to anyone is one of the stupidest notions of all time. The idea that you can kill your prisoner to teach the others a lesson and keep them in line is straight from the Lynch mob mentality and practices of slave holders. This threat is not there to keep you safe it’s there to keep you under control.

The fetus is not a human being able to support itself. Way too many men leave women alone.

Ya wanna fix this? Any man who clearly impregnates a woman without her permission should be degenitalled and imprisoned.

What does pro abortion mean? If you mean pro-choice, you should write it. Otherwise, you might consider not making comparisons and editorials about issues you don’t really understand.

You seem to think in a rather extreme way. Why would anyone on this site hate you? We don't deal in hate - we try to produce rational arguments. And it is certainly not rational to equate abortion and the death penalty. Your argument needs to be rather more nuanced.

I think the same number of people are pro abortion, as the number who are pro murder. It should be available as a choice.

If there were no penalties for murder, would the murder rate increase significantly?
My guess is not.
If abortion is outlawed it only eliminates legal abortion.

Justice is the determining factor.

A person, any person, has a sovereign right over their body, A humans right over their body is superior to the fetus's right to life. This is clear in cases of rape, and when carrying the fetus endangers the life of the mother.

I'm not in favor of the death penalty, I don't think 'an eye for an eye' vengeance is just.

You should actually learn the facts about your topic of choice before you go on a rant and look stupid.

I can see the point from the other side. As in the christian right being pro-life but support the death penalty. As for your point? It does not hold water. A convicted murderer, however heinous their crime. Is a living breathing human being. Whereas a fetus is just a potential human being.

For me it is my knowing that government organizations tend toward corruption incompetence. Too often we learn of another person falsely imprisoned, and some have been executed.We cannot trust that a person is guilty of the crime. And even when they have done the deed, it may be that they are not accountable so as to be killed.

And of course, the death "penalty" is not a deterrent.

Any woman who has had an early miscarriage (in medicine, known as a 'spontaneous abortion' knows that the 'product' is not a baby but a zygote - looking like a blood clot.

I have never known anyone to be pro-abortion. There are lots of folks who believe, like I do, that it’s nobody’s damn business what an OB doctor and female patient decide is the right thing to do. As concerns the death penalty, it seems to me that state-sponsored murder is really just vengeance in search of justice; I don’t trust the morals of our species in general, so I don’t believe we should be making such a ‘final solution,’ to coin a phrase.