I decided to take some time and dissect the definition of God: all powerful, all knowing, all good. First off I’m trying to prove this philosophical definition to be possible. Second, I find being all good misleading because if God is all powerful it is implied that God is also all bad. Third, if God is all powerful free will does not exist, which I have no problem in excepting determinism that each choice is cause from previous sequences of causes of events. So if God exists in all things and controls and manipulates all things I can see how this force exists. Fourth, all powerful doesn’t imply unlimited power. Now the all knowledge part gets tricky because knowing every minute random detail is difficult to fathom. If God exists in everything and God is the simulation we are all part of it seems to me it is possible that God has already processed everything that will ever happen, very unlikely but life itself is unlikely yet it still happed. I mean how can something know every lotto outcome for all eternity? Some things seem far to random to know consistently but hey simulations can be tricky.
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6 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I find it interesting that when people from a western Christian background mention "god" they mean Yaweh, the Judeo/Christian god to the exclusion of all other gods. They call themselves atheist or agnostic but are they really ?.They seem to be fixated on the Jewish god.
The Jewish people were originally polytheists and adopted monotheism probably because it was to their advantage in their expansionist plans.
Netanyahu and his Zionist pals have not changed that mindset and their "god" has given them rights to inhabit Palestinian lands and kill or remove the inhabitants just as their old testament ancestors did.
Moravian
Level 8
Apr 23, 2019
0
Why exactly are you spending your precious life musing on fairies & Easter bunnies?
AnneWimsey
Level 9
Apr 22, 2019
0
Why are you on agnostic.com as an atheist who has no interest in theosophy?
@Atlas89 because the header for this site welcomes me?.....just wow
My ex drove me bat shit crazy with his theological philosophy BS. Needless to say, that’s why he’s an ex.
To me it’s just not that complicated. If you have to think that hard if god exists, that means there’s no proof.
Green_eyes
Level 8
Apr 22, 2019
0
I thought agnostic.com was a place to think about theosophy...
@Atlas89 theological philosophy tries a million ways to prove gods existence, which I already deny.
I’m sure there are some that will entertain you and there is also a philosophy group you can join. Most of us join agnostics to chat with like minded people about all kinds of stuff.. without the religion BS.
@Green_eyes I wasn’t suggesting any religious affiliation to my analysis of the philosophical definition of God. I have no issue with you denying the existence of God but you’re denial doesn’t prove that it doesn’t exist just like a theists approval doesn’t prove it does. I actually find myself agreeing with atheist often times over religious peoples supernatural claims that defy natural laws. When I first signed up to agnostic.com I thought it was intended to be philosophical but apparently that is not the case.
I think you're overthinking it. Unless you've studied probability, for example, or statistics... Or even biology, and ow much our DNA plays to our "free will." Or neuroscience, and how much of the brain is already making decision we didn't even know we were making. These concepts only confuse us.
The word I use is paradox. The odds of something happening are a million-to-one... until it happens. This it's quite different. Paradox is the idea that two conflicting ideas can be true at the same time. Our brain has already made our decisions for us... yet at the same time, we can step in write new tapes or find other options. Our DNA has already told us what we're susceptible to, what our bodies are going to look like, even whether or not it's possible for us to live a long life. Yet we have options in there as well.
I may be susceptible to certain cancers, but thanks to medicine (and healthy living), I can mitigate those challenges. I may be severely depressed, but again, there's medication. There are things I can do that will help. Having people around me can be helpful.
God, if such a thing exists, would be embedded inside all of that, being both all-knowing while at the same time knowing nothing. At every moment, every decision sets us on a 'trajectory,' and at every moment that trajectory is going to change. Something knows how to "create" life, and to keep it going. There seems to be some intelligence within the idea, but how much? Is the universe really elegant, or is it just duct tape and band-aids? So far the only definition of intelligence we have is... well... ourselves... and any "intelligent" person will tell you, we're not that intelligent.
But sometimes I just refer back to Bobby Singer from Supernatural. "Don't worry about the big picture son, you'll hurt your head."
Benthoven
Level 8
Apr 22, 2019
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I like overthinking from time to time. I agree with you we are not very intelligent, that’s why it seems like overthinking.
since there is no god, you may as well be discussing oliver twist. all the points you made have been made in various forms by an awful lot of folks over the past couple/few thousands of years. they're useless, of course, unless you think there might be some kind of god or gods. most of us here already do not, and it's not because he's a meanie, or not as smart as we once thought he was, or because he lets children die of cancer, or because he lost or won at lotto. it's because there is no evidence that he ever existed or even could exist. it's that simple.
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genessa
Level 8
Apr 22, 2019
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Okay, you’re an atheist I get it. I wouldn’t describe God as a man. The philosophical definition of God makes me inclined to interpret it as being more of a simulation we are all part of. Whether God exists or not I am not so sure. All I was getting at is it is possible. For you to point out all the bad doesn't prove or disprove we are living in a simulation that doesn’t know what it is doing. Sounds to me like you think agnostic.com is a place where atheists can team up and intimidate anyone who is actually agnostic into leaving the platform.
@Atlas89 you wouldn't describe him as a man. christians would. and in what WAY does it sound as if i am making ANY characterization of this site with regard to atheists, or ganging up, or intimidation? excuse me, but are you hallucinating? i intimidate NO ONE, nor recommend, nor believe in, intimidation, not have i anything against agnostics, despite my not being one. no, honey, you do NOT get it. you very much do not get it if THAT is what you took from my post.
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There is no god,...that is the only logical conclusion.
Marionville
Level 10
Apr 22, 2019
0
Clearly you’er not agnostic
@Atlas89 Until I see evidence I can only conclude that there isn’t a god, ....if evidence can be shown to me that there is, I would then be able to say that there is. I believe that is being agnostic.
@Marionville agnostics don't typically make the claim that there is no God as you clearly did, that would be like me saying there is a God until I find evidence that there isn’t. I can’t know for certain, so I say, I don’t know, but this is what I do know based off the definition, hence my original post. Apparently by definition an agnostic doesn’t think you can know anything of the nature of God, which I don’t find accurate in representing me. I don’t identify as atheist, agnostic, or theist. I find that some things can be known about God by examining the definition, I just don’t know if it is in essence and entirety existing.
@Atlas89 I don’t have a closed mind on whether there is a god or not....but after 74 years, I still haven’t seen any evidence, so on balance of probability I no longer say, “I don’t know” like I used to, but “no I don’t believe that there is a god, because I see no evidence that there is”. It is my prerogative to say this, and not yours to tell me that I’m wrong. Personally, I don’t follow your reasoning or agree in any way with your concept that there is a god who is any of the things you describe, none of us have evidence of any type or substance of a superior being who either created or controls us, none has ever been found by anyone. It is only blind faith which believers produce as evidence, that and biblical texts or the Koran or some other “holy” book. These are all man made, inventions of man’s fertile imagination....and contradictory in the extreme. They should be classed as fiction in the libraries, and given an adult classification, so full of barbaric language some of them are. Children should only be allowed to read them when they are a bit older, and only to analyse and study comparative religions, and should never be presented to them at a young age as truth. I have never had a religion, I was brought up in a freethinking family and was told to read all philosophies and religious texts, along with books on science and nature, and to use my brain to decide what I believed or not, afterwards. In other words I conclude after deliberation and thought, and after all these years that on balance of probability, there is no such entity as god. That doesn’t mean that I am saying that there is definitely no god, just that there is so far no evidence on which I can say that there is. We can only say anything is definitely true if we see evidence, and as we cannot prove a negative it seems we are never going to do so. What is it about this that you cannot understand? I can’t be any clearer in my meaning.
@Marionville I’m not saying you are wrong. I think free thinking and the way you were raised is the way it should be. I wasn’t raised religious either. I agree the Bible has many contradictions. I agree there is no evidence for God. I agree studying as you have is better than excepting blind faith. I agree the bible is not a kids book and is riddled with imagination, I hadn’t read it till I was 23. I don’t know if there is a God, I was just analyzing the definition and saying if there is by definition this is what follows due to basic reasoning. I’m sad you didn’t like my deterministic reasoning. You have a good point about proving a negative, I just don’t feel like saying I am an atheist because so many people believe in God and the supernatural and I have had some strange experiences myself that I give it some credence but I’m also not comfortable saying I believe in God, it’s a strange divide because like you said we don’t know for certain.
Have you ever watched the James 3 reincarnation story on YouTube? Some kid has memories of a past life it is interesting and seems to be legitimate. Also there is quite a bit of convincing evidence leading me to believe in extraterrestrials who have been visiting earth. I happen to know someone who seen a UFO and the crop circle it made, was on the news a few days later. The circle was in Wilbur WA and some UFO analysts even went out and tested the circle for traces of electromagnetism, sure enough they found traces, you can find the video on YouTube if you want. I’m just saying because a lot of people don’t believe it but when people say they saw something and evidence follows do you believe the person who tells you what they saw? I just find it very interesting and quite profound. I’m not saying there is evidence that points to there being a God but there are sure a lot of people who claim to have seen or felt something, maybe they are all delusional or lying, but I believe and I will go as far as saying I know my brother saw a UFO that made a crop circle.
@Atlas89 I may take a look at James 3 on YouTube, but my feeling about the things you mention, the crop circles and UFOs, is that they are either clever hoaxes or there is a logical answer to them which we are as yet unable to understand. I don’t believe in any supernatural reason....but I may be wrong. I am never dogmatic about my beliefs, as they are only that....my beliefs.
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