You are sooo cool

@Amisja I didn't frigging burn my bra and march to get these rights for nothing...the world is scarier for insecure men but they are going to have to adapt or die because most women are not going to go backwards...we are done being pulled around by our hair by neanderthals (well, with some exceptions )...

You actually made my point for me. You think your helping by having less children but you aren't because the majority of population increase is onky happening in 3rd world countries. The only thing you are achieving is making your developed country's population top heavy. It's doing absolutely nothing to slow resource depletion, mass extinction and global warming.

But keep telling yourself that of it makes you happy. And if you happen to be the extreme minority of women who don't lose respect for their submissive husband and end up cheating on him and or leaving him, my hat is pff to you because you maam are a unicorn.

@Kenofthedude I see you have the gift of knowing all...that is indeed better than being a unicorn...

My husband is not at all submissive...we have been married for over 40 years...he is actually quite studly and I have to keep the woman at bay when he plays drums at concerts...

Oh, and if I want to cheat on him, it is not so terrible because he can get alimony since things need to be equal....

It was our lifestyle choices not to have children as well...it seemed boring and stressful to us both since we preferred to travel and pursue our passions...

@Kenofthedude There is this thing that exists now you may have heard of it is called IMMIGRATION. So that when western nations have a diminishing population they loosen their entry requirements for immigrants. Unless of course your real complaint here is that there are less white babies being born, then your top-down heavy analysis can be thrown out.

@demifeministgal Populations for centuries have used immigration to bring in not only work forces but also mating partners to IMPROVE the gene pool...I think you nailed his real beef to the "T"...

@thinktwice brilliant analysis..... follow it to it's logical conclusion. If it's such a great system, what happens when the whole world "improves".

@Kenofthedude What is your belief that happens? I am sure we have pretty different ideas on this...

Go on youtube and watch sandman's videos. I'm not going to waste my life posting 10 pages outlining something that has already been beaten to death by others already.

@Kenofthedude that's usually the first indicator of a strong argument right there.

"Hey go watch these YouTube vids"

Lazy argument, lazy thinking. If that's all that it took to convince you, maybe you need to reconsider.

@Kenofthedude you don’t have to do that. Just cut and paste the link which will take all of 30 seconds so that we can engage in an informed debate, or links to the individuals you refer to in the post that support your argument. As much as the point you raise is interesting without supportive evidence of the argument it is merely opinion or conjecture.

@Geoffrey51 if i spoon feed you videos you will just watch it to argue not watch a whole bunch and consider the over arching narrative.

<Sigh> Here you go, picked at random:

@Geoffrey51

@Kenofthedude thanks for taking the time to do that. I don’t see, however, how either support your argument. Sandman provides no evidence to consider the veracity of your position as his discourse comes across as misogynistic ranting.

The interview with Peterson also has no evidence to support your hypothesis as it is an opinion piece with no supporting reference anywhere in the broadcast.

Are you able to find a peer reviewed academic article so that a serious conversation can take place? Thanks again for the posting

Feminism is not about men and women being equal partners. It's also fundamentally impossible as long as humans exist in their current form. If you don't think feminism has destroyed the west. Simply look at the birth rates and numbers of lonely single post wall women(on this very site even).

"Anyone who disagrees with feminism is automatically an incel or involuntarily incel."

*Standard feminist shaming tacic is ineffective.

Why do you assume my happiness is dependent on this phenomenon in the west? Did it occur to you that men that rightly want to remain men and live in an actual equitable relationship with females can simply abandon ship in tbe west and go elsewhere or simply decline the golden vagina?

If your intent is to actually expand your knowledge then I would recommend viewing/reading Jordan Peterson's work.

I suspect your intent isn't knowledge but to defend your current world view much like a theist. I'm not here to spend all my time argueing. This is the information age. Ignorance is a choice. Just so you know, I was brought up with feminism, raised by a single mother under the feminist narrative. I understand it better than most.

This is like debating christianity with Christians. I was born on their team. There is absolutely nothing they can tell me or show me that I wasn't already exposed to growing up. Same with feminists. Once you take the red pill there's no going back.

LOL OF course he is a peterson bro. ughh

@demifeministgal standard feminist practice. Just insert bro after anyone's name who hasn't completely bowed to the golden vagina idol. "Don't support Hillary Clinton? You must be a BernieBro!"

@Kenofthedude From what I have seen of Jordan Peterson, he is a very intelligent guy, but much of what he imparts seem to be from a defensive position rather than providing new research

@Geoffrey51 Defense against what?

@Kenofthedude that his world view is threatened

@Kenofthedude your US-centrism is noted and your fanboy love for peterson as well. He is wrong about many topics, but one has to be well-versed in said topics to be able to spot his bullshit. Lucky for him, his followers are not very knowledgeable and mentally lazy.

@Kenofthedude: So... "no", you don't have any data

@NoPlanetB The problem with your line of thinking is you have been bought the classice feminist lie that their goal is simply equality. They were truly equal a long time ago. They will never stop asking for more. That's female nature afterall. Men and women are not equal. Men are second class citizens now and have been for a long time. If there's a gender war in the west men have clearly lost. Women have invaded every single male space but the reverse has not been true. They continually argue for equality when it's beneficial to women and invoke the benefits of femininity when that is also beneficial.

A great example is military service. They argued for decades that a woman can perform the same as a man in the military and they had a equal rights to be there. Then the 1st thing they did was get special treatment when they invaded that male space but demanded equal pay. Their physical training requirements are lower yet they get paid the same.

One example of many.

@Kenofthedude "men have clearly lost"? Do women earn a salary equal to men? Have they earned a majority of seats in congress? Among the ranks of CEO's? In the director's boards of corporations? Sure the place of women increased in the last decades. But to the point of winning over men?!

@Kenofthedude Again, please provide your references

@QuidamOutrepont I see you're parroting the classic feminist arguments. Of course women seem to be oppressed if you compare them in arenas tailored to and valued by men.

Let me ask you something, when's the last time you managed to hint at the possibility of sex in exchange for some kind of social benefit? Should men lobby congress and demand affirmative action on sexual favors lol? How many women do you know who were absolutely gutted in a divorce vs men?
What is the overwhelming majority gender in suicides and homelessness?

When I was a young boy, an old man who was a mentor to both my father and myself told me something that I'll never forget. "women own 1/2 the world and all the pussy." At the time I just kinda laughed and thought it was just a playful joke. As an adult, I fully understand what hw was trying to tell me. Ironically he was an OBGYN and a damn good one.

Women and men are almost 2 different species. What has gotten men as a whole in trouble is believing they are anything like us and therefor should be treated just like us. They as a general rule, are not and should not be. Gender is not a societal construct. It is biological. It's for the most part baked in. What I find funny is how hypocritical people are about the gender roles. Apparently it's politically correct to say a woman can do anything a man can do these days but not the other way around. I had a long time feminist GF that would argue women could be just as good soldiers, race-car drivers, fighters, builders yadda yadda as men and it was just men holding them back because we don't wan't our fragile masculinity challenged. Then I would ask her if she thought a man can love and raise a child just as well as a woman. "of course not".

IT. IS. NOT. ABOUT. EQUALITY. ANYMORE.
In fact, the more I meditate on the topic and read, the more I question if it ever was at all.

"Why do you care about the West?"
Simple, it's my origin.

"What about it do you personally connect with?"
Well, I am a westerner so almost everything.

"Should all of Western traditions be preserved?"
I think everything should be preserved to one extent or another.

"What about it do you think is in danger of being lost?"
I think western countries will eat themselves in many different ways until economic power shifts completely to the east. Military power will follow. This is due to a variety of factors. One of them is radical feminism.

"Are westerners allowed to adapt and change to new environments and situations?"
Sure, that's all anyone can do. What everyone decides to do collectively changes the world for better or for worse.

"If a majority of Westerners decide to not follow a traditional Western and adopt a new tradition...is that acceptable?" It depends on what that tradition is and who you ask.

"Do individual Westerners have the option to not follow a tradition?" It would depend on the tradition.

"What Western traditions do you practice that is unique among non-western traditions?" Freedom of speech and thought as well as gun ownership seems to be biggest divergence currently.

"Do you realize that one of the hallmarks of Western civilization is throwing out old traditions and ideas for newer better ones? Rapid Western progress is exactly about that." Communism and fascism were both "newer better ideas" once...

"Feminism is simply the next stage of Western culture." Yeah, like metastasis is the next stage of cell growth..

"Its time for you to let go of old western culture and adopt the new western culture. Otherwise you will no longer be a true follower of the real western tradition: rapid progress with no reverence to old traditions" Yeah, that's going to be a hard pass on feminism so long as humans exist as biological beings with hormones and neurotransmitters. I don't have a problem with equality in a world where everyones personality is just code running on synthetic computers. It's the in-between stage we're in now that's unacceptable.

Great, appropriate response.

@ElusiveMoby Maybe he has a point, though. I’m going to take a good, hard look at Calamity Jane.

Actually, daddy issues if anything.

@Kenofthedude Take a look at Freud and Oedipus. It could be that your anger is denial of a mother problem being placed upon the father by transference. Not that Freud is taken as a given these days, but there is a framework to consider with regard to self-worth issues.

It's already complete, that's why we have the problems western society is currently facing. Continuing the feminist tactic of shaming men and labeling masculinity as toxic has run it's course. You won't get much more mileage out of it.

That was some clever evasion! ..ever consider politics

@Varn Funny you should mention it; I was a successful elected official for a number of years. But what I would really like to know is how you think my note was evasive? I like to find out what is being said, why, and in what context before taking a position on anything. I've seen enough of the "Ready. Fire. Aim." method of debate to recognise and despise it; I am surprised and disappointed to see it here. There is something to be learned from the discussion of any hypothesis, no matter how ludicrous it seems at first blush. Thinking about the unthinkable is how we arrived at many of today's commonplace truths; offering to lynch dissenters is a bit old, don't you think?

@Arouet Whenever there’s more between the lines than on them - BINGO. As a longtime active Atheist ..politics wasn’t going to work for me. What I did do, and continue to (though somewhat jaded) was field work, LTE’s (ghost writing), opinion pieces, sign work, knock & drop/ talk. Intimately familiar with those I attempted to get elected, it appears evasion remains a key element to achieving and maintaining office.

I like this: “There is something to be learned from the discussion of any hypothesis, no matter how ludicrous it seems at first blush.” I’ve ‘answered’ above, but instead of cranking down on the guy, I shared my feelings on the subject. I feel his ..irritation, and if I were closer to his age, that could be more serious.

So, are we becoming too cocky in our agnostic/ atheist safety place? I’ve wondered, while less patient than ever over the small-mindedness I’m surrounded by in the rurals of SW VA. Though if I were to let my thoughts fly in public, I’d expect worse than what he’s experiencing around here. We need to stay as fluid as possible, and to me, yours was like water

@Varn While I take your point, I do not think that 'evasive' is the right word. Successful politicians are evasive only when caught out. Disingenuous, mendacious, insincere might be better. Certainly you can be sure that any politician who as been able to survive for more than a couple of terms, has always stayed comfortably on the fence, never having taken a radical stand on anything. You cannot attack their values because they don't have any. It would be fun to expand this discussion to the mechanics of politics, but that is a bit off-topic.
As to your comment about being cocky in our safety place, I must sadly agree. I used to bask in the arrogance that we were reasonable, evidence-based, thoughtful,... unlike the conservative, evangelical dinosaurs down the hall. I was wrong. We are no better. We cling to ridiculous notions based on faith and how we think things should be rather than how they are. Some of the replies to the original thread bear this out.

It is a big awareness campaign fueled by women who have had it...it will balance out...hitting the heads is sometimes needed to get the point through initially...I think it is easy to see from the outside in and say it is overly dramatic...until you, your daughter, your mother or your sister has been a victim...

@thinktwice if my family is caught in it, I will not start a movement against men in general. I surely pursue that man.

Being a Quebecer, living in North America but speaking French and having a direct access to the French media, I can tell that in matters of men-women relationship, there's generally a gap of several decades between the French and the North Americans.

@QuidamOutrepont We tend to forget that our country is only a bit more than 200 years old compared to Europe...

@Tiramisu but are you also going to fight the systems that are also mostly biased against women? The courts, the legislators, the schools, etc? The Me Too Movement sheds light on how pervasive attitudes and acceptance of certain behaviors against women is and bringing it to light helps everyone...has it gone over the top? In some cases, I also think YES...

@thinktwice There should be strict laws and there should be good redress but I believe that a movement against men in general is not warranted. It is hard to know what is not sexual harassment any more. Men are confused. But I still try... lol

@Tiramisu Is the movement against men or for women? Yes, it is confusing...the line between adult flirtation and harassment is blurred...can't hug anyone without worry...I get it...it will even out as do all things

@thinktwice Agree. I am hugger but this movement has slowed down even good love. lol

@Tiramisu lol my partner at work, a male, and I used to hug a lot...now we still do but we always look at each other and say "You're not going to sue me, are you?"...a bit sad..but we get it...

"Do you and your Mom still talk?"
Frequently. She agrees with me.

"I'm actually curious because as people often do you became as opposite as you could to your parental world views. And I wonder how that goes over. (Sincerely)."
I think it's pretty presumptuous for you to claim to know what my world view is as well as my mothers. I was raised as a feminist by a feminist. It's only now that I'm realizing what a bankrupt and counter productive ideology it is.

"Because the way you're doing it here is pretty combative. And I hope you are far gentler with people who aren't online."
Totally. Just look over all the posts on this thread. Yes, it's clear I'M the one acting combative...

"I can tell you that in my 54 years on the planet - feminism has wrought improvement - women are no longer trapped by society in the same manner they were before. Having to remain in situations where they were told what they would and wouldn't do by a man."
You call a society that now oppresses men and is slowly withering away an improvement?

"And 42 percent of the population is single now - so I figure it's important that there were changes to views about single women (and men). That had to normalize a bit."
Seems like you're ignoring the elephant in the room. I think a rational view is given that 42 percent of the population is single shows that the society and culture in the west is no longer aligned with reality/biology.

"I don't know why you see it as doom and gloom? People are stronger. Men and women. Change is scary yes - but that's the nature of change."
Change is often scary for good reason. It's perfectly acceptable to be scared if one finds oneself in a car speeding toward a wall with an unconscious driver.

"There are countries where you can still go be the patriarchial alpha male - but I suspect a good dose of old-time religion goes with it. Not a change most here would ever be willing to take."
I know, I go to them frequently and am happier there as well as the rest of the population. My goal is actually to move to the east permanently.

@Kenofthedude All of us who think feminism is a positive are 'bluepilled'... I think I got a fairly good understanding of your beliefs in that one statement.

Maybe you'll be happier elsewhere in the world.

For myself change is good. Women suffered long enough.

@RavenCT google redpill man vs bluepill man

@Kenofthedude That's precisely what I thought it would be.

Also I've worked jobs that were considered "Male only" - so I call BS on this alpha male stuff. More and more women are just as capable as men of doing physical labor etc..
(Better nutrition - better health - better workforce).

So there is less division of labor in this modern world.

We all need to figure out how that paradigm shakes out for us though.

No thanks sweetie.

I like your attitude but unless you're an incel or mgtow there are serious negative consequences for you that you may not be able to avoid.

@Kenofthedude As one who did not know what mgtow or incel meant as little as 15m ago, I would ask you to expand a bit on your comment.

@Arouet I would ask that you use google or watch some of sandman's videos on youtube.
Incel= Involuntary Celibate.
MGTOW= Men Going Their Own Way. I guess you could also call MGTOW "VolCels" Voluntary Celibates but it's not as catchy as MGTOW. Basically high sexual market place value men that have just decided that being involved with women just isn't worth it anymore in the modern western world. They have women trying to engage them constantly but won't bite because it's just not worth it in the current political, social, economic western world.
Blue pill = Men who have been brainwashed to believe men and women are essentially the same and shoukd be treated the same by feminists. See also beta male, cuck, betacuck. These men are the classic "nice guys" who finish last. They come in many varieties. Many blue pill men are also incels. The ones who aren't incels are usually being used by women at various stages of hypergamy. Definitely read up/watch lots of videos on hypergamy as it is key to understanding why feminism is ultimately all about the subjugation of men.

Red pill= Men who understand everything above. Pickup artists, men's rights activists, mgtows etc.

Start here: .:www.youtube.com /user/SandmanMGTOW:.

Hope you decude to take the red pill before you end up losing anymore than you already have, homie.

@Kenofthedude This is really stark. What led you to this position?

@Kenofthedude From your posts you seem to have undertaken a lot of research on the matter but not really prepared to share it. Sandman and interviews with Peterson don't really count as they have no supporting evidence. Please provide solid responses if you are serious about your argument.

@Geoffrey51 I did elsewhere in the thread. No, I am not going to spend hours copying and pasting links. If you want to look into it, you can, If you want to keep your current world view that's fine as well. I purposely stepped into an echo chamber and introduced a hostile concept with the intent on pointing those who want to check their existing world view for their own benefit. It's a rescue mission, not an armed insurrection.

You planning on wasting your life hanging out in theistic forums trying to cite all the evidence that their religion has no basis of reality? Go back and forth with them and try to cram the truth down their throats? I've spent years going back and forth on the internet. What I've learned is once the amygdala kicks in you're wasting your time. No amount logic or citation will override the threat response.

@Kenofthedude I appreciate your explanation. At a time, I looked into some of that. But concluded, the ‘movement’ consisted of men the equivalent of the women they apparently despised…

Your assumed description/s of ‘me’ are pretty accurate, though.. But I’m headed toward old, been ‘there,’ done a lot, and have two amazing daughters to show for it(!). But if in time or happenstance ‘she’ falls into my arms, and by she, I mean someone with which I near instantly feel connected, I’ll attempt to go there, again..

But you’re not near old At 25 & 27, my daughters are both spoken for, but they’re magnificent.. Raised by their dad, homeschooling and all ..in an isolated country setting, they’re nothing like what you’re complaining about. They’ve been guy magnets, not only due to looks.. but the fact they respect men and understand both sexes complete a human unit evolved for reproduction and the teamwork of parenthood. Not battle.

I very much appreciate and understand your viewpoint, though. I’ve witnessed it too. Still do. It’s become a dance I’d rather avoid ...and with a new motorcycle - it’s getting easier and more fun every day I hope you find peace amid this mess. Seems the tension of an overpopulated planet, perhaps this has become our latest form of birth control ~

@Varn I feel you on the motorcycle thing 100%. I wish you luck in the west. I have concluded the risk vs reward ratio is just too poor in the west for men. The rules and culture in the west are so unbelievably slanted in favor of women while the equality of women has crashed it's just not worth fuckin with. The prospect of getting divorce raped use to be the only thing to worry about. Now one has to carry around recording equipment 24/7 just to defend against getting "me too'd" or getting arrested for domestic abuse that didn't happen, being an unwilling sperm donor and having your assets seized for "child support". Look, I'm not saying it's impossible to find a good woman left in the west. I'm just saying there is so much pressure from a bankrupt culture to ruin them all that unless you met her when you were both in your teens and won the lottery on finding her, the probability of finding one and keeping her that way is bleak. I only date in the east. the problem with that is I can't settle down unless I move there as any woman I bring home to the west will be ruined by our society. Her hypergamy will go into overdrive in this environment and the outcome will be the same as if I picked a western woman.

@Kenofthedude I suspect your reluctance to post links is because you have none other than Sandman and Peterson.

@Kenofthedude Divorce raped Wow ..hadn’t heard that, but tragically true, for me…

Had a daughter worried about the fact of inevitable death not so long ago. I told her, by the time it comes, you’ll likely be ready. I’ve watched my father head that direction, and when considering what you’re up against with regard to a healthy, lasting relationship …shit - has me one step closer to death, with no fear.

The ‘me too’ thing has been horrendous. Not so much that I doubt the accusers or victims, but that every man is now ‘suspect.’ Fuck that, or not. Being blamed for what any man has ever done to a woman, and may continue to do - anywhere on earth loses me fast..

Thought of this topic today ..as an activist feminist I’ve palled around with some posted another ‘exclusively woman’ fb invite.. See & hear that so often that I’ll envision ‘men’s whatever’ in place of woman and nearly laugh out loud over the fuckin firestorm that would ensue! It happens with minorities, too - but women are the majority, not a minority. ...but they’re suppressed ..and it’s our fault.

Yup, glad is closer to over for me Follow your feelings, it’s all we can do ~

I blame feminism for a good bit of the collapse of the family unit and generations of children growing up without fathers. I blame feminism for the crashing birthrates that follow a few decades after it everywhere it goes.

@Kenofthedude ...interesting thought. Why would you blame feminism "for a good bit of the collapse of the family unit'? Please provide a rationale otherwise your comment comes across as a mysogynist rant, which I am sure it isn't.

@Kenofthedude The patriarchy is oppressive to those of us who are not white, rich, privileged men. It needs to be unraveled. One could argue that male domination imploded the family unit.

Not threatened at all. In fact the only reason I decided to pop in was to try and help as many blue pilled men as I can. Watching all these bitter old land orca feminists get a serious case of vaginitis is just a bonus lol. As far as saving the west? I think it's pretty clear to any true free thinkers/skeptics that have been paying attention that it's far too late to avoid the iceberg. I'm just hoping I can get a few to gather their things and get to the lifeboats.

@Kenofthedude ..and to what extent is this helping "as many blue pilled men" without providing supporting evidence. I'm glad that you are posting for purely altruistic reasons, though.