I know the people of Alabama pretty well; I've spent most of my life here. The type of man everybody is cursing does exist here, as everywhere, and they earned those curses fair and square. But I'm not convinced they constitute a majority, or the real reason Alabama Governor Kay Ivey signed the abortion ban. For every Alabama man I've known who feels he must keep his woman under control I've known six who say with a knowing glance, "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."
Alabama is no more monolithic than any other place; there are differences of opinion, and most of my female (as well as male) Alabama friends are as angry and shocked as anyone outside Alabama. But Alabama would not have passed this law if a majority of Alabama women had not wanted it. It's the culture here. It's a very red state, for the most part, and that means both men and women are conservative in their values.
I can't say what it's about in other places, but having been up to my eyeballs in Alabama for seventy years, I can say with some confidence that most of the women in Alabama do not feel oppressed by their men; Those senators' wives told them "Do not embarrass me by voting against that abortion ban or you will not get any... supper when you come home tonight." And the men did what was necessary to keep the peace. In public they brag about keeping women in their place, but at home they do as they're told.
The war in Alabama is not between men and their wives; it's between the past and the present; and don't even mention the future. The culture is about pride, and independence, and tradition. It's as much an identity issue as a gender issue.
Reply not working again. They are backwoods x-tian white men.
They don't believe women should be in charge of their own bodies. I got pregnant at 42. Having one handicapped child I was warned I would have another. My own parents and sister wanted me to have an abortion. My decision not theirs. Alabama is a backward state with Rethuglican women who know nothing of their existing rights. Mike Pence is evil and Fuhrer Trump rides on Evangelical base. It's ugly for women in Alabama.
Yes it is.
How is it different for them than for women in all the other states that are outlawing abortion? There’s a bunch of them.
The real problem is that the war is between the men and women of Alabama and other women who don't share the same beliefs. What gives them the right to dictate to anyone what constitutes a "baby" or "when life begins"?
Everyone in Alabama is free to believe as they wish, just as everyone is anywhere. It's imposing their beliefs on others through the tyranny of law that makes that belief a problem. (And no, that's not the same thing as being "forced" to serve same-sex couples. Those couples exist regardless of one's belief. Being forced to participate in a same-sex couple against your will, that one would be a violation of religious beliefs.)
Conservatives try to compare the anti-abortion activists with abolitionists in the 1800s. The difference is that anti-slavery activists fought for the freedom of people to do with their lives as they wanted, without answering to any master; whereas anti-abortion activists want to restrict women's rights to do as they will, until they have no right whatsoever except to give birth once they're pregnant.
I ain't buying it. They elect these people. I am not interested in why people in Alabama are ignorant and immoral. I only care they are. I have been all over the South and the Southeast, and I have the utmost disregard for all of it. I feel the same way about Texas, where I currently live, and Oklahoma, where I grew up (except for Austin).
Could you say more specifically what it is you're not buying?
This is a problem with a certain type of Old Testament religion being deeply ingrained into the population in Alabama. The problem about that is that it is taken into the political sphere where it should have no place. I’m sure you know these people better than anyone, and I, an outsider wouldn’t presume to disagree with your analysis. We have a similar situation here where Iive in Northern Ireland. As a Scot who came here to live 46 years ago I was appalled at how backward in certain social issues they were, such as the availability of abortion. There were even chemists here who wouldn’t dispense the contraceptive pill, as it was against the teachings of the Catholic Church. We still do not have the same abortion rights as the rest of the United Kingdom, and it is illegal to obtain an abortion on all grounds except the mother’s mental or physical health. We export our problem to the mainland, boats and planes carry women to Scotland and England every day to have abortions on the mainland. Now the Republic of Ireland, which used to have the same restrictive laws, has voted in a referendum to reform their abortion laws, there will be a flood of women going south over the border to obtain one there. The reason here is the extreme Protestant DUP, who are evangelical in their Old Testament beliefs, and are blocking any legislation for reform. I know there are women here who are against abortion under any circumstances, they are simply brainwashed by their religious upbringing into believing that it’s what god has ordained. That is a very difficult thing to counteract, they put god’s laws above everything else, there is simply no way of making them see it any other way. I believe the women of Alabama see it the same way, that’s why they agree with the men.
A lot of us struggle with what we see as the stereotypical white southerner. We meet and talk to so many over the years. But situations on the level of this abortion ban always happen. Southerners pride themselves on being friendly. But it is a surface friendliness. There are just too many of them who when scratched below the surface, show this face. That's an observation. My judgment is seperate. Their religious teachings just seem to have ingrained so much. Their friendliness is a taught behavior, not necessarily deep sincerity. Maybe most of the human race is the same, but some more than others. And some are so narrow minded when it comes to views on how life should be. Just how the bible teaches them.
Reply buttons took the day off today so...
@thinktwice
I don't think Alabama has much awareness of cultures outside its own really, except by way of rumor and cultural distortion. Like most humans, they focus on fear of the unknown more than the facts.
I'd guess my assessment would not apply as much to black women and the very poor, as much as to middle class whites, which is also to say that the whole issue is more likely to be racially motivated (in Alabama) than gender biased.
I lived in Mobile for a year...I also worked with a lot of men originally from AL...I get what you are saying...people not from the South don't get the old Southern culture perpetuated by the white, rich, conservative, powerful, and political...most only think of the poor, backward, ignorant portrayal of the South...there are all sorts of things going on that contribute to this happening...it is not that simple...thanks for your perspective...
As a fellow Alabamian I second that. You can find any opinion you want in Alabama, though as a whole the state is conservative. What I have experienced is that women here are very assertive, poised and self-confident, and they usually get their ways.
You're just shifting the blame around, figured it'd be a couple weeks before someone was blaming women for this.
If they're such good people then WHY AREN'T THEY DOING ANYTHING TO STOP THIS?
Because they oppose abortion.
I'm not blaming women, and I'm not calling anybody good. I'm saying both men and women want this because it's in keeping with their values, which in my opinion are tragically outdated, but more in line with local religious identity.
If what you say is true, then why don't they accept the comparison to Muslim law that is very similar in their culture and way of thinking when it comes to women...or do they?
Is your cultural assessment true of black women as well? Alabama has one of the highest abortion rates among black women. I just don't see black women accepting the culture and pride of Alabama history along side the Southern white women.
Black women must be among the strongest, most assertive people in the world at least in personality.
Apparently a majority of people here oppose abortion. How is that any different than all the other places that have recently enacted anti-abortion laws? There are at least fourteen states that have either passed such laws or are considering such laws.
@WilliamFleming I sometimes think in our initial reactions, that we forget that what you say is probably true...most of my black women friends oppose abortion...but they support the choice being made by the woman...I think they could have tweaked the law to make exceptions for rape, incest, etc. But it seems Republicans take a burn it all approach and start fresh just to piss Democrats off...
@thinktwice yep, you nailed it. It’s ego driven posturing designed to attract attention to themselves. I’m betting that nobody is ever prosecuted for performing an abortion in Alabama. I could be wrong.
@WilliamFleming My husband and I were trying to figure out anything good coming from all of this...the only thing I could think of it that perhaps we could educate much more on birth control and pregnancy prevention? Anything else is dictating the moral code to women in particular...I think that is a step backwards...women should have sexual freedom without the fear of an unwanted pregnancy...