I'd like to tell how I got to Agnosticism. I was raised as a Catholic. I was baptized when I was just 5 months old, got the Holy Communion in 3rd grade of elementary school and Confirmation in the 1st grade of middle school. From 2nd grade of ES to 1st grade of MS I had to addend a kind of Sunday school at the oratory (I don't know how to translate it properly. I only know we had this class on Saturdays, unlike our parents in their days).
The only good thing about it is that I had fun with my classmates (the same I had at school) and once I got kicked out of the classroom together with a boy because we couldn't stop laughing! We also had a Religion class a week at school, in which we learned about history of religions.
Long story short, I started questioning my faith when I was 10. But I had to do the same things as other kids. I rebelled after Confirmation and stopped going to the miss.
So I haven't been attending the Church for at least 20 years. In the 3rd or 4th grade of high school I also stopped joining Religion classes. In Italy, these classes are optional at all levels and you can choose to not attend them.
What blew my mind is that, here in Italy, coming out as a non-believer is like coming out as gay, bi or trans.
I came out as an atheist, although I'm agnostic, because explaining what an agnostic is, it's more complicated. Few people know its meaning. Just like coming out as bi or trans is more difficult than coming out as gay. "Fortunately" for me, I'm attracted to ladies only and never felt attraction for men. Not a single guy attracted me. How I understood I was gay and my coming out story is another whole topic and if you'd like me to share them, let me know and I will do it.
I learned from science recently that a persons
brain doesn't form completely til age 26, so the training
(or schooling ) we get makes a greater impact. I have tried
through out my life to see fact and truth as a comfort.
Life itself changes ; we are better and happier with these
at our side as we go through life. I'm glad you found a place
(HERE, THE SITE) that helps us all learn more & grow.
In my community in The U.S. Italians and Catholics are usually the same thing. Gay, Atheist, murderer, rapist, they are all the same thing...
What a nice community! (I'm sarcastic, of course)
I was also raised Catholic and I started questioning the whole religion thing as soon as I could form a complete sentence. I did go through the process of confirmation, but only because my mom promised if I did she would never make me go to mass again. I may have left the church but that good ol Catholic guilt somehow never leaves lol.
The English word for Catholic School conducted usually on Saturday is called "catechism"
the word goes back to the religious education a place in Europe in the catacombs.
I wasn't sure about "catechism" because it's too similar to the Italian "catechismo". And since there are plenty of the so-called "false friends" between Italian and English, I wasn't sure what to write, in order to be understood.
It's good that you left the Catholic bs and began journey of enlightenment. I'm glad avoided that train wreck. I considered becoming Catholic before I left dark side. I wish had the courage to come out as Atheist and being gay as you.
Are you gay too? If yes, just be yourself and come out when you think it's the right time.
@freedom41 many pan people come out as bi, because bisexuality is less difficult to explain (and to understand). Most people don't know what a pansexual is.
I also had difficulty to understand the difference between a bi person and a pan one and I started questioning the usefulness of labels. I arrived to the conclusion that everyone defines themselves in the most suitable way for them.
If I said "I don't care about gender at all", I'd be lying. I have a "specific" preference which can't be overlooked. So, I define myself as lesbian.
Anyway, the fact you lean more towards men is just a preference matter and that doesn't make you less pan than someone who doesn't have a preference at all.
I have learned that what looks good on paper, mainly the bible is bull!@#$ in real life.
I was raised a Roman Catholic as well and had to do all the same things: baptism, communion, confirmation, confession -- all that bullshit. I started to wise up in my mid-late teens and by the time I was old enough to drink, I had passed from believer, to agnostic, to atheist.
Welcome.
Former Catholic here. Glad to have you with us.
When you said, "...stopped going to the miss" I was going to ask, "So you 'converted to straight?" It would have hopefully been humorous. We're all friends here. Not a homophobic bone in my body, not even an atom. Most (all?) my girlfriends have been bi. Not unusual. Lesbian? Maybe a little, but no mystery to me! And yes I'd like to hear that story.
I was an altar boy. Catholic through my first year college. Agnostic at, oh, 16 or so, though I didn't know the term. Studied the Baltimore Catechism, graduated to the Aquarium Gospel of Jesus the Christ, all the New Age stuff, finally threw up my hands and gave up. A few years ago discovered 'Jesus' is pure myth...imagine my surprise! The shock! The horror!
Now like you I am pure agnostic, with educated to half-baked ideas and guesses floating around in my head. Life has never been more fun. The awesome mystery of it all is breathtaking. I don't even WANT to figure it all out.
Religious people don't know what they're missing.
I'll start from the second part of your reply. You're actually right because feminine bisexuality is more common than we think. I noticed this thing on the dating app I use: bi women outnumber lesbians.
Anyway it took more time to figure out my sexuality than to do it with my non-faith.
The only thing I know is that I was glad to have no god(s), when I finally stopped suppressing my gay feelings.
Anyway, your joke wasn't offensive. The problem is that it took a few minutes to understand it...
PS: I feel the same as you... I don't want to figure out anything, nor make a fuss... I just want to live!
I'm happy for you because you were brave enough to get out from the religious black hole. I was raised by my Catholic family and I was forced to follow all the steps to become a "good child of Jesucrist" but in my adulthood life I decided to express my non-belief to my religious family. I feel like the blue dote fighting with the universe. Hahaha
I was also a catholic, same experiences, was even an altar boy, but as a child I was always skeptical, in sex ed class for example, we were taught how men and women lose their virginity, the same catholic school that suspended me for asking "then why do we call Mary a virgin if she had several children?" The reaction was eye opening. Anyway, I don't use labels, I realuzed that I do not and cannot believe in gods or religions, all man made and all false.
Great story, and happy for you on your journey.
Myself, I call my belief, or more apt, non-belief, an Agnostic Atheist.
Atheist, because I in no way believe in any kind of supernatural deity, or what ever one wants to call it, and Agnostic, because I can't prove it one way or another.
But if I'm really being honest, I don't really use a "label" much. It's like trying to label a non- stamp collector something.
I simply don't believe.
Two of my favorite quotes on that:
"I don't want to believe, I want to know" ~ Carl Sagan.
"call it what you want, the only kind of "ist" I am, is a Scientist" ~ Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
Well done on using your brain to think for yourself. Very best wishes from me, I hope you are allowed the freedom to follow your own path in life,
Do you still live in Italy? I have a condo in Baveno (Lago Maggiore), Piemonte. I am here about 3 months every spring. Leaving tomorrow for my other home in Tennessee.
I congratulate you on seeking evidence. It is good for a person to think for herself or himself.
Buona fortuna.
Yes, I still live in Italy. I live in a village near Bergamo (Lombardia). It is the village where I grew up.
Anyway, Italian lake areas are stunning and very relaxing!
Have good return journey to the US!
I didn't add the most important part... Anyway, since I didn't (and still don't) see any evidence of a higher entity's presence (or absence), it turned out I was agnostic, instead of atheist.
I congratulate you too, on your stance, itβs not easy to go against the perceived orthodoxy. I know that there is no evidence of a god or gods to prove or disapprove existence, either way, however I believe that lack of evidence makes it more likely, on balance of probability, that god does not exist,
@Unicorn85 Fair enough. But I do have the courage to say Santa doesn't exist, and Santa doesn't suffer from logical self-contradiction they way the god of all the omni's does. (One can argue that, if an existential proposition of something is in and of itself logically self-contradictory, then that thing not only does not, but CANNOT exist.)
Epicurus put it in better words than I can, but suffice it to say that an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent creator god cannot exist if reality around us is real. If he knows all, sees all, has power over all, is all good, and created all, then evil doesn't exist. Waving it away with "free will", etc., doesn't work. If an all knowing, all powerful, all good god creates everything, then nothing that is caused from that creator god can be evil, choose evil, or in any way possible lead to evil in any way. Those who believe in such a god have painted themselves into a logical corner, and those who believe in a god with lesser attributes have made a mockery of the entire notion of a "god" anyway.
Edit: The same goes for perfection. A perfect creator god cannot lead to anything that is imperfect, chooses imperfection, or in any way leads to imperfection, ever. There is no escape from that logical problem.