A hypothetical moral dilemma:
Dan melody are dating, Dan ask Melody" are you on birth control?"
Melody says" no problem I have it all taken care of".
Melody asked Dan" would you like to get married and have kids?"
Dan says" no I don't want to get married and I don't want to have kids"
time passes they move in together Dan notices there's no birth control pills, Dan's not worried 10 years ago he had a vasectomy.
they live together for 5 years and Melody asks" I wonder why I'm not pregnant".
Dan says" I told you I never wanted to get married and I never wanted to have kids".
should Dan have told Melody about his vasectomy?
Melanie was trying to trap him into being a father, even though he had made it clear he did not want that.
But, why would he have asked that in the first place if he knew his dip stick was snipped?
Still. "I have it all taken care of" He heard that she was also not interested in having children at this point.
When actually "taken are of" to her, was to make him a father against his wishes.
If she'd have said, "No" to being on BC he probably would have said he'd had a vasectomy.
a reason why Dan might have ask about birth control in the beginning to determine if Melody was willing to lie this is a common scenario.
Well . when u love someone and u share your life with , secrets are for the birds . There is no reason for her to hide that birth control pills are not in the menu anymore . And no reason for him to hide a medical procedure as a vasectomy . If they are older than 25sh and still acting like this in a relationship , I am glad they will not reproduce with ea other and raise more as them
They both are terrible at communication. Dan should have probed further and asked her what does that mean exactly? And gotten the ball rolling. Eventually her plans may have come out and he could have told her yeaaa not gonna happen! Had a vasectomy. This sounds like a messed up chick that is trying to trap a guy into a relationship or force a child-free person to have a kid with her. Yikes! RUN DAN RUN!
It's a really weird hypothetical. Why would she wonder aloud, "I wonder why I'm not pregnant?" after five years, when he already said he didn't want kids and she already said she had it taken care of? She might as well say, "I wonder why I haven't had it taken care of for five years like I said I did." It's just not something a human person would ever say.
I guess I don't see what the dilemma is. Why wouldn't he just say, "You're not pregnant because you had it all taken care of, remember?" The vasectomy seems completely moot to me, especially since they can fail in rare cases. And especially since sometimes women just don't get pregnant for whatever reason, even without a partner with a vasectomy.
The real question is...should Dan have told her about his shocking past in the circus? And should Melody have revealed she's a twin, and her sister Harmony has been posing--off and on--as Melody for years? Years I say!
No. It isn't any of her business.
He was honest with her from the start. He said quite clearly that he didn't want
to get married and he didn't want children.
She's the one being dishonest.
She said she had birth control "taken care of".
Five years in, she's shown that she intended to get pregnant right along.
He never saw birth control pills, and I'm imagining, no other forms of contraception.
Her deception outweighs any possible obligation he may have ever had to tell
her about his vasectomy.
If I was the one dealing with BC and after 5 plus years of all the down sides (cost, side effects and in the case of the pill risk of cancer or stroke) of BC I find out my partner could not get me preggers due to a medical procedure he CHOOSE to have long b4 we hooked up and NEVER mentioned I'd be tempted to cut his fuckin' balls off.
@silverotter11 But she wasn't. She was not on any BC, and she intended to get pregnant all along. Despite him telling her he wasn't interested in marriage or children.
Not to mention, vasectomies fail with surprising frequency, and you never know it's failed until there's a pregnancy.
@KKGator Clearly these two were too self absorbed to really care about each other so it probably is good they did not reproduce. I do not like being lied to, lies of omission sorta make me crazy too. Full disclosure is my motto. There is personal stuff and then there is the stuff that effects both parties. In any event I thought this was an interesting post and enjoyed my morning coffee reading all the comments.
They both need to improve their communication
I don't know.
Dan was pretty clear, right from the start. He said he didn't want to
get married, and he didn't want children.
Seems to me that Melanie didn't communicate that she intended to
ignore him and try to get pregnant anyway.
Since Dan had a vasectomy, it could be useful info. Because she didn't have to buy her birth control or if she accidentally skipped. I already agreed she was in the wrong, too. Just because she was deceitful doesn't counter his lack of communication
Maybe a better hypothetical would be to ask what would happen if Melody got pregnant and she told him it was his baby...
I thought about that scenario, we should explore that idea
@m16566 This sounds like a scenario from some terrible late night TV drama. It would force them to be honest with each other at the very least.
That is even more misogynistic to paint Melody as stealth breeder....and leaves out the fact some vasectomies fail
@GreenAtheist You see this kind of shit happening on TV all the time, you can't tell me you haven't read a book or seen a movie or show where something like this was the plot.
How do you know that the plot isn't that Melody is cheating on Dan?
How do you know that the vasectomy didn't fail?
What if she isn't actually pregnant and just wants answers?
Why are you getting angry about a joke?
YES, that should have been discussed long before they were intimate. Dan withheld pertinent information from Melody, Neither one of them had good honest communication. Yeah, they need to drop out of the dating pool and live alone forever.
I'm really surprised so many people are saying Dan should have told her about his vasectomy, and he was dishonest for not doing so.
He was clear about his intentions from the start.
Melody was the one lying from the very beginning.
Further, keeping whatever medical procedures he may have had to himself, isn't "keeping secrets". That stuff is his business, no one else's. He said he didn't want kids. If she knew she did, that was her cue to leave.
She intended to deceive him and get pregnant anyway, knowing full well he didn't want children.
@Ms_McSteven That's just it though. She wasn't doing that. She lied when she said she had the birth control situation taken care of. She had every intention of getting pregnant despite Dan telling her he didn't want kids. She came right out and said she wondered why she hadn't gotten pregnant yet. She'd been trying the whole time.
She was being intentionally deceptive from the start.
I agree with you...he stated very clearly his intent at the very beginning...she thought he was going to change his mind over time...she was the deceptive one...
@Ms_McSteven And IF she'd been on the Pill, it could have been for reasons other than contraception, as it sometimes is.
I don't see Dan as being an "awful" person, at all. He was truthful from the start.
@Ms_McSteven LOL
The sex was probably pretty good, and ahe had intentions of getting knocked up.
Agreed, I just forgot to mention that in my post.
Yes, and immediately in that exchange. However, she is also guilty of a deception. The two of them are deceitful creeps.
They both need to be honest with each other from the start.
He was. She wasn't.
Read the last line of the post. He never told her he had a vasectomy.
@LiterateHiker I know he didn't tell her. He did, however, tell her he didn't want to be married or have kids. That makes not telling her about the vasectomy irrelevant.
She's the deceptive one, far more than he.
@Ms_McSteven As I just said in a previous response to much the same comment, contraception often fails, uncluding vasectomies. Just based on the info given in the OP, Melody was being duplicitous and Dan was under no obligation to tell her anything.
yes of course. what if she were on birth control pills only in order not to get pregnant? yes, okay, we know she's not on them, but he didn't know that when he made the decision not to tell her about the vasectomy, so as far as he knew, she was taking a pill that, while extremely helpful to many women not only to avoid pregnancy but to ease dysmenorrhea and regulate periods, also has its serious physical dangers. he let her take it when she might not have had to. the fact that it turns out she wasn't taking it is irrelevant. you haven't asked whether she should have told him she wasn't taking the pill. one lie doesn't justify another.
g
They are both in the wrong for the same reason. Both are lying to each other but in a different way, Melody is lying through deception, and Dan is lying through silence.
Dan happens to be in control of this situation, so if he has any self respect he will tell her about the vasectomy. Of course Melody should still respect Dan for his choice to not have kids, so if she is only using him to get pregnant so they can get married then Dan should not be wasting his time with her, and she shouldn't be wasting her time with him.
The time they wasted with each other is adequate punishment for their lack of integrity and failure to communicate.
Dan didn't lie.
He was really clear about not being interested in marriage or kids.
He's under no obligation to tell her about his medical procedures.
@KKGator The cruelest lies are often told in silence.
Robert Louis Stevenson
@Happy_Killbot Dan didn't lie about anything, in any fashion. He was truthful from the start.
He said he didn't want children, or marriage.
That was all he needed to say.
@KKGator He isn't telling Melody about the vasectomy. He is lying about it by not telling her about it. That is technically a lie, although a passive one. Melody is lying to Dan the same way by not telling him that she is no longer on birth control. They are both lying. Keeping a secret is still a violation of ones integrity, and both are guilty of this infraction.
Just to demonstrate, I could make the same argument you make about Dan about Melody.
MELODY didn't lie.
SHE was really clear about BEING INTERESTED IN MARIAGE AND KIDS.
SHE's under no obligation to tell HIM about HER NO LONGER TAKING BIRTH CONTROL
@Happy_Killbot Your attempt at reversing the argument doesn't wash.
He said he had NO intention of getting married or having children. Period.
He answered a direct question honestly.
The vasectomy was merely a safeguard on his part. It wasn't a "lie". He still had no intention of having children. He, at no point, engaged in deception, through omission or anything else. He also had no obligation to tell her about his vasectomy. He'd already answered her question.
Melody, on the other hand, was absolutely deceptive from the start. She intended all along to get pregnant, despite Dan answering her question in the negative.
@KKGator Melody does want children, and her desperate act of deceit would have worked if Dan did not get a vasectomy. Although she did not state it directly, it is apparent from her actions that she does want kids and marriage. Her futile attempt to get pregnant is just her way of expressing that desire. She is wasting her time with Dan chasing that desire, because she just doesn't want to move on and accept that Dan doesn't want kids or marriage. Dan is taking advantage of her because of her own choices.
I am not arguing that he is obligated to tell her about the vasectomy, I say that it is his decision to tell or not, and if he has any self respect he will tell her.
No. Dan is 100% in the right about this. What part of the word NO does Melody and most you commenters not understand?
It makes no difference whatsoever if Melody knew about the vasectomy or not. She knew what the word NO meant didn't she?
@Ms_McSteven
Not that hypothetical. I've had a vasectomy and never told any partners about it other than to say I don't want kids. How did you get artificial hormones out of Ive got it taken care of?
Since the actual question was should Dan have told Melody about his vasectomy? I think you should refrain from judging the reading comprehension of others.
And yes, he should have told her. If there's no reason to put her body through using BC he's an asshole for making her do it.
@1of5
Talk about problems with reading comprehension where in that story did she mention she was taking BC? She could have had her tubes tied. A hysterectomy. Any number of reason that she couldn't get pregnant having nothing to do with BC pills.
No he was and is under no obligation to tell her after she said she took care of it. Unless we are to assume she's lying her ass off because she is a woman. Is that what we're doing here? Because the poor little deer is only a woman so we can't hold her accountable for her words because we all know wink wink women have no idea what they are talking about and should never be taken at their word? Give me a break.
@Anonbene right. She could have done any number of things, but our idiot author here specifically mentioned BC pills. Should she have disclosed her method? Absolutely. Should he have told her he had a vasectomy so she wouldn't have to use BC at all? Absolutely.
But the assumption that 2 people could be in a relationship for that long without discussing the method being used to prevent pregnancy is the idiotic thing here.
Let me answer you with the abortion answer. It is absolutely no one's business what me and my doctor decide what I do with my body. Not now not ever.
I've only had long term relationships. One 12 years and another 16 years. I don't think I ever had a hookup whatever that is.
The idiot author specifies that when came to live with Dan there were no birth control pillS.
if Dan had not had a vasectomy should he have accepted the baby trap without question?
@Ms_McSteven
Bail out? With 18 years of child support payments?
@Ms_McSteven
Unless the laws have changed The men have no say if the woman keeps the baby or not just like women have no say if the guy gets a vasectomy or not.
when she asked if he wanted to get married and have kids, they should have both said what they needed to say then. They could have both gone on their merry way.
He did. He said he wasn't interested in marriage or children.
She was deceptive. When she said she had the birth control situation taken care of, she was lying. She had every intention of getting pregnant.
@KKGator I would be very pissed at a guy that made me take birth control for five years for no reason. If he had been considerate at that time, he would have said something about the vasectomy at that time. At that time. The whole relationship was doomed in this sceanario, and because we know what happened, arguing about it is wasted effort. Any person who put their whole trust on another for birth control is a idiot. like a guy telling me he had a vasectomy so he doesn't have to wear a condom. Sorry, but that doesn't protect me from STD's. No one should be the only one who is in charge of something like that.
@Hathacat I don't believe for one second that she was ever even taking birth control pills. She had every intention of getting pregnant by a man who told her that he didn't want children, or marriage. She said so out loud.
His not telling her of the vasectomy pales in comparison to her deception.
Which, if she had had her way, would have resulted in children whose father
would have likely resented their existence.
If she wanted to have kids, yet knew he did not, the onus is on her . . . . and given that after 5 years she is wondering why she is not pregnant says volumes more about her than it does about him. In fact, he clearly was someone who took it upon himself to control his destiny, while she assumed that somehow he would fall in line with her future plans . . . . Funny shit, the joke is on her.
Don't be surprised when I tell you that it works both ways . . . . . some women seem to take for granted that getting pregnant will net them what they want, but it does not always work in that direction . . . . my younger sister went out with a guy who was about ten years her senior and he wanted to get married, she was still young and not ready to do so . . . . he poked a hole in the rubber and voila! . . . . instant marriage . . . . ha ha ha . . . .
They both sound like selfish fucking morons.
They live with each other for 5 years and neither of them know shit about the other!
Pretty normal conversation to talk about protection.
Pretty normal conversation to say hey I had a vasectomy.
Pretty normal to include someone into the desire to try and get pregnant.
You’re asking the wrong question, but fuck yes he should have.
So he's established that he doesn't want a family. She's stopped taking birth control without telling him, in the hope of getting pregnant, and presenting him with no option. In what world is he the dishonest one?
If he'd agreed to try for a family, and not disclosed his vasectomy at that point, he'd be the one guilty of deception. But as things stand, she is.
I know it's a hypothetical question. In real life, I can't imagine this not being something that doesn't get discussed very early on. Not least because there's no need for the female partner to be taking regular birth control medication when the male partner has had a vasectomy.
When I wrote this I imagine that Dan, after discovering no birth control would just let it go.
after all there now living together.
I thank Melody believes Dan will come around when presented with a newborn baby girl.
in reality he would have no choice.
if Dan saw the regular birth control regiment daily he might tell Melody that it is not necessary.
under the circumstances I can understand why" Dan would let sleeping dogs lie"
Yes, of course. Why hide it? Seems ludicrous anyway because it'd obviously come up in the course of things. If Melody didn't like it and wanted a virile man with whom to have children, she could leave.
And Melody should have told Dan she wasn't using contraceptives. She's the bigger a-hole, if you're keeping score. Dan already told her he didn't want to get married and have kids.
So the question is contrived, designed to construct an unlikely and ridiculous senario, so then could be asked an equally contrived, nonsensical question.
yes the moral dilemma was desired no clear resolution.
I have seen scenarios like this in the real world.
it was designed to be a moral gray area
@m16566 But that's just it. I don't see a gray area. Why should Dan tell her he had a vascetomy? He already made it clear to her he didn't want to get married and have kids.
That's me. I'm 66, never married, no kids. Never regretted it.
The only thing "contrived" is her not knowing about it. But okay, I can think of an outlandish reason or two that might explain it. Let's just say for the sake if argument that's the case.
Melody was absolutely WRONG, Dan is in the clear. Period. I just don't see any ambiguity.
Yes. They both are running their games and and after 5 years it is clear Melody's game is up and she will never have the baby hook into that fish so whether he tells her now or not the relationship is doomed. Serious counseling may save it if they really love each other. BUT
If I was the one dealing with BC and after 5 plus years of all the down sides (cost, side effects and in the case of the pill risk of cancer or stroke) of BC I find out my partner could not get me preggers due to a medical procedure he CHOOSE to have long b4 we hooked up and never mentioned I'd be tempted to cut his fuckin' balls off.
Yes, I think he should have told her because she doesn't need birth control if he had a vasectomy, right? And also when you have a sexual relationship how can you not bring this up after a certain amount of time? But Melody not taking birth control knowing that Dan doesn't want kids is also not okay. They should talk more with each other.
I totally agree on that I just forgot to mention it in my post.
Can’t imagine why they share such intimate details if they wanted an honest relationship.