Is anyone else on this site sick and tired of practically being called a bigot for saying the same exact things about Islam that we say about Christianity? The Left needs to drop this regressive double standard with Islam. Religious conservatism is NOT cool or “woke” when the Muslims do it. In other words, liberals need to stop glamorizing th hijab and defending the burka as just another cultural practice which should be defended.
1
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I have no issues with people from either Christianity or Islam who follow their religions original decrees of worshiping the god they believe in in private and dedicating their public lives to the service of others. I take equal exception to the fanatical wings of both religions.
webbew1
Level 7
June 20, 2019
0
I don't believe in or agree with either religion. I also do not think people of either religion should be attacked or murdered. Its that simple.
Lauraleigh39
Level 6
June 19, 2019
0
Not really. Old debate, no mileage left in it. If you are looking to engage with intelligent people look for another issue not frequented discussed. If you are just whinging or trying to stir the pot you will have a lonely visit because members will see the name and pass on.
Geoffrey51
Level 8
June 19, 2019
0
I think you have a point. there are as many branches of Islam as there are in Christianity. Some of them benign, peaceful and tolerant such as the Ahmadi sect. Ahmad Shah, the Glasgow shopkeeper murdered by a hardliner from England for wishing his customers a happy easter was from that branch of Islam. At the other end of the spectrum are the Wahabis from Saudi Arabia. I think it would be difficult to say anything nice about them considering the appalling way women are treated in that country.
Moravian
Level 8
June 19, 2019
0
All religions are bad, all religions oppress women, all religions are misogynistic and run by men for the benefit of men. I am not aware that anyone on the “Left” is saying that Islam is less oppressive than Christianity, that would patently be nonsense if they were. The wearing of the burka or the hijab or any other garment is not a requirement in Islam, they are cultural and which one of them is worn, or indeed none, depends on geographical location more than any religious dictat. I really wish people would stop labelling others and using ‘liberal’ and ‘left’ as though they were 1 - Bad and 2 - The Same..... because they are neither. Left and liberal are now used as terms of abuse by those who don’t really understand either term, and bigot and other labels should also be used with extreme caution. It would be better if we all stopped using using such pejorative terms when addressing those with whom we disagree .
Marionville
Level 10
June 19, 2019
7
I agree, as always
@ToolGuy”May” being the key word!
I have a feeling this post was directed my way. Firstly as I said many times. I do not believe in god. I do not practice a faith and never have. However I do not nor would I attack the basic tenets of most religions, if followed as they were intended. Jesus (if you accept his existence) was a pretty decent guy. He did not mention anything about gays, except a brief passage about accepting eniuchs (was was probably a word symnominous to gay in ancient times), he did not mention abortion, special people, land ownership or guns. Mohammed was equally a sound man (who definitely existed). His first instruction was that all people should read especially women. He informed it was a father's duty to educate their daughters. Yeah there is mysogny in the bible and the Quran and in terms of 2019 it is not acceptable.
Now we come to the veil in all its forms. The bible and the Quran state that people (men and women) should dress modestly. There are rules about jewellery and covering the legs but they both basically state that women should cover their breasts. The rest is culture and fashion. In times before the Islamic era, women in high society were not expected to work or be viewed by the hoi polloi. The veil was definitely a sign of status. The more impractical, the higher the status. In the same way women in China had their feet bound. This meant that many women in high society were basically confined to sitting.
In some regions of the Islamic world (there actually is no Islamic country) women's rights are rock bottom but one must be clear here. This is very little to do with religion and far more to do with societal control. The exact same issues can be seen in fundamentalist Christian communities and Jewish communities.
Now I live and work in Lancashire with about a 13% Muslim population. I have lived in USA and Asia. I know for some women, they are forced to cover. Saudi, parts of Afghanistan and some areas in Africa. These are the minority. Most Muslim women see wearing the veil as a proud rite to womenhood and marriage. It is their choice. Like I have said often here, in this part of UK, many 10000s of women grew up wearing veils of my grandparents generation.
What annoys me is that you believe a lack of a faith is the same has hating the religious.
I hate hypocrisy
I hate lies
I hate racism
I hate violence
I do not hate anyone of faith if their faith leads them to a better understanding of the human experience.
I think that anyone stating they hate an entire group of human beings is one thing and one thing only...a racist!
Amisja
Level 8
June 19, 2019
4
Islam isn’t a race.
And you’re making excuses for Mohammed, a disgusting pedophile with a 9-year-old wife who beheaded anyone who disagreed with him. Read some of the criticisms which many Muslims don’t want you to hear. Definitely a “sound guy.”
@TheDarkNolanite Islamophobic.
@TheDarkNolanite
Groan
Al-Shati, Bint (December 2006). The wives of the Prophet. Matti Moosa (trans.), D. Nicholas Ranson. Gorgias Press LLC. ISBN 978-1-59333-398-0.
Freyer Stowasser, Barbara (1996). Women in the Qur'an, Traditions, and Interpretation. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-511148-4.
Marriage was not at the time a joining of two beloveds. It was often a way to protect a child by bringing her into a wealthier marriage.
Lady Margaret Beaufort was first married when she was just 12.
Isabella of France was just six years old at the time of her marriage.
Her sister, Catherine was married the King’s son in 1420 at the age of 8 years.
There are 100s of examples of powerful men marrying children. This is not paedophilia. It not correct by 2019 standards but it was a common practice 1000 years ago.
List of child brides - Wikipedia
[en.wikipedia.org]
Nice one. A voice of reason and experience!
@Amisja Calling out pedophilia is “Islamophobic.” Get lost.
@TheDarkNolanite It isn't paedophillia if that was a social norm of the time. Mohammed's first wife was 20 years senior to him.
@Amisja Still is.
You make some very interesting points and as you say it is unfair to criticise religion solely for the ills of the world when it is usually a mixture of culture, nationalism and politics allied to religion. .
I wonder if you have read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's biography "Infidel, my life"..A fascinating story of the life of a very courageous woman. She has written other books including "The caged virgin" about the life of a woman in Islam and has spoken out about the need for an enlightenment in Islam as there was in Christianity.
by denouncing the entire belief system based on the actions of some followers you are doing the exact same thing that we accuse the christians of doing to blacks, women, the poor, homosexuals et al. religion in general is a tool - just like a hammer or a corporation. it is a tool under which humans can group with people of similar feelings. It is also a powerful tool and one subject to abuse by unscrupulous people. Hate the illicit player, not the game.
JeffMesser
Level 8
June 19, 2019
1
False. Religion is always the root of the problem.
@TheDarkNolanite false? you're 27 years old. I'd suggest you have a lot left to learn. Perhaps you could begin by reading Yuval Harari's "Sapiens".
@TheDarkNolanite Time for you to study non-religious states such as China, Russia and North Korea I suggest.
@Geoffrey51 congratulations on a truly ignorant response. you have all the depth of a 23yo hollywood actress.
@JeffMesser thanks that’s the nicest response I have ever received. Glad to be in such erudite company
@JeffMesser What comment are you responding to?
@Geoffrey51 I was talking to that 20something pupster. I apologize if my ire wandered astray. I am not adept at wielding emotions so wantonly.
@JeffMesser Not a problem, I thought it a bit ‘different’!
@Geoffrey51 oh and I was being really dumb because I thought that was HIS comment. thats why I had no clue what he was talking about. now it makes sense saying it to him. oh well, lemme go run the kids off my lawn real quick.
We were mostly once xians, or are very aware of xian culture.
I see 99% those who post nasty stuff about Muslims are totally ignorant of actual Muslim culture, they are just spewing crap to foment trouble & strife. How about You?
AnneWimsey
Level 9
June 19, 2019
2
There are 15 countries which execute atheists, all Muslim-majority. Guess what? I think that’s worthy of condemnation. In Iran, women cannot legally show their hair in public. Guess what? I have a problem with liberals glamorizing demented theocracies like that and calling it “diversity.”
Also- Islam has destroyed and replaced entire cultures before. Talk to some ex-Muslims who criticize their former religion.
@TheDarkNolanite How about Not telling everybody how You think they should live?
And recognizing that Imposed policies, whether it be capitalism or any type of religion, Never has worked in the history of the world!
@AnneWimsey I just think people should be allowed to live freely. Freedom is antithetical to Islam, which literally means “submission.”
@TheDarkNolanite The Islamic people I know are not the people you are describing. It seems you have a limited understanding of the world and the people in it.
@TheDarkNolanite you mean, like atheists who used to be xian talk about their former beliefs?
@AnneWimsey There are no atheists who used to be Christian who are given death threats for criticizing their former religion. Google Ayaan Hirsi Ali and observe how she can’t go anywhere without police protection.
@TheDarkNolanite ummmmmmm, plenty of evangelicals with guns have Actually shot people, or haven't you noticed?
@AnneWimsey Not for drawing a funny cartoon of Jesus or for making critical remarks about Christianity.
@TheDarkNolanite really? Some of them were in schools & churches, in fact quite a few.....your willful ignorance is Astounding....
@AnneWimsey Nobody has been killed by Christians for “blasphemy” at any point in the 21st Century. School and church shootings have nothing to do with people making fun of Jesus. But there are, however, hundreds of millions of Muslims who empathize with the message behind the Charlie Hebdo massacre.
@TheDarkNolanite ummm, to start at the beginning....Madelyn Murray O'Hare got Daily death threats her entire life.
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