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From your personal experience, are some people simply not wired (say, neurologically or intellectually) to believe in something like a god? And conversely, are some people extremely prone to believing in something like a god, the supernatural, etc?

I knew someone once who seemed to believe in quite a lot of woo. She believed in crystals, psychic power, telepathy, secret history, indigo children, prophesy (not the biblical kind), and that aliens abducted her. Like many religious people, she was fairly normal otherwise. She may have been a little manic, and had superior interpersonal skills and social/emotional intelligence.

I myself was convinced throughout the '90s that aliens existed, driven mostly by pop culture and the apparent mystery of the phenomenon. I remember being fascinated by the tv movies/miniseries on Jesus in the early '80s, but other than that, very little interest in taking a specific religion seriously as a reality.

greyeyed123 7 June 22
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23 comments

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4

There of over 7 billion human brains on this planet and no two are wired exactly the same, so it is entirely conceivable for any particular wiring to exist.

3

"Belief" is one of the most addictive things in the human psyche. Most people (more than 50%) feel compelled to believe in stuff. That makes them very vulnerable to control and manipulation.

mischl Level 8 June 22, 2019
3

It's almost a scientific fact that that's the case. There's been a lot of research on this. You, me, and many others like us are wired a little differently, and I'm ever grateful to have this reality gene, or whatever this neurological network we're "blessed" with is.

One thing I know about myself is that peer pressure has very little effect on me. I've never felt obligated to be a part of any group, and if the group didn't want me for whatever reason, I'm almost always ok with that. So just because everyone believes something doesn't mean I will.

I also become very disturbed by large groups of people believing weird things or acting in ways contrary to evidence/reason. I remember that feeling slowly getting worse in Sunday school as a kid, in direct proportion to me realizing that these people had no good reason to believe anything they claimed to believe. I think it's the same feeling others probably get when learning about cults.

1

That’s an interesting point. I was the same as you in 90s and got involved with quite a few peculiar things.

I am, however, not bad at creative writing and music but absolutely useless at practical things like car mechanics and putting up shelves. I just don’t get it!

Could well be wiring!

I watched all of "The X-Files", but started reading about UFO's in the college library a couple of years before that. (Then listened to Art Bell for years on the radio.) I read so much that at first I had massive confirmation bias. But then I went through a phase were I thought certain things MUST be true...and if they were true, then more conclusive evidence would be forthcoming. But then it was just more bad evidence, and then a pattern of years (at least via my perspective) of more bad evidence...until I had to accept that if certain things WERE real, good evidence would have been found, leaked, etc., somewhere, at some time. It then just felt like a money making myth and mind game.

The most I think now is that experimental aircraft surely exist, and other unknown phenomena that probably has nothing to do with aliens also exist. Everything else feels like so much storytelling hysteria. Fun hysteria. But when you "want to believe", you just have to let it go.

1

I think I am one of those not wired to believe. I drove my parents nuts by not believing any of the crap parents typically feed young children.

1

I've been criticized before for saying something like this might be true. The 'born hard wired believers' notion. Some say we are all born atheist and socialisation is sorely responsible for religious belief. They criticise any idea that some people are born neurologically disposed to religion. I understand their objection. But I'm coming up to my 64th birthday (will you still love me....when I'm 64...!) and I have to say, from my experience, I really do think this, from the people I've known and observed. Yes, this is only subjective thinking, and experiential based, but I cannot deny it. It's depressing, since it suggests religion in some is in their wiring.

On the bright side, I do think that the great majority of people are not born this way but acquire religion through family and culture, and mostly go along with it. If that is true, there is hope this might change over time in our evolution and future.

My sense has always been that if there were nothing in one's culture that was religious, people would start making a new one. As it is, we have plenty of evidence of religions co-opting other religions, beliefs, traditions, rituals, etc., into their own or largely new religions.

@greyeyed123 oh very true. Richard Carrier's lectures and books about how Christianity evolved from many previous and existing religions, so little of it was in any way new, is a good example. Religiously inclined people start religions and then rope in the others with fear and false promises. I wish it were not true but it is.

1

I think it's a question of willingness to accept something without evidence. In Psychology we call them 'true believers' and they're the Scientologists, UFO believers, anti-vaxxers, and people who think that avoiding gluten is a healthy way to live. (Gluten avoidance is only important for a very, very tiny proportion of the population that has celiac disease, otherwise eating it or avoiding it makes 0 difference.) For this group, who have an unfortunately large presence in the Federal government at this point in time, the presence of evidence has no impact on their belief.

The other extreme is the people who require empirical evidence on which to base judgements. While there are no absolutes in sciences, decisions are based on the probability that such a phenomenon can happen entirely by chance.

I think most people are somewhere in between. I don't think there is any evidence that there is hard wiring to cause this. I would expect that as with most things it's a question of the environment in which the individual grows up, and their ability to move past their upbringing.

1

I think I might just be naturally skeptical - and my parent's neither encouraged or discouraged my disbelief in the religious story they sent me to catechism to learn. They respected my decision not to continue the indoctrination and I was allowed to drop out of it by 3rd grade. 2 of my siblings are religious, 3 of us are not.

I had 2 grandmothers - one super religious and not very nice - the other atheist and was very sweet and close with me. Not sure if my roots that way had anything to do with my tendency toward skepticism. I identified a bit more with my atheist grandmother, who by the way had a bible in her living room, while my super religious one didn't own one that I know of.

My dad's mom was a Baptist, while my mom's mom was a Catholic, so my paternal grandmother never really accepted my mother or me (mom was nominally Catholic I guess, but never went to church and never took me). It was often truly bizarre. My mom's mom was very sweet to all her grandchildren, and insofar as I ever heard of any of her religious beliefs, they were all benign (kindness, love, gentleness, etc). Of course, I doubt she ever read the Bible, or if she had, she didn't take it all that seriously.

1

Some people are just more gullible and weak-minded than others.
That's how I look at it.

It may be that some people, for various reasons, may want to believe something more than others.

@greyeyed123 I have very little use for those people. I generally hold most of them in abject contempt.

If that's true, how can I explain my closest friend from university days who got a first class honours, a Rhodes scholarship, went to Oxford, was one of smartist people I've known, knew the history of Christianity in depth, but still was very religious and a believer?

It is true that when we spoke about religion he would seem less 'smart' to me, and I told him so, nicely and humourously. But there it is.

@David1955 There are exceptions who aren't completely hopeless.
Just like everything else, there are always exceptions.

@David1955 My mother's neurologist is extremely smart, yet he's a Seventh Day Adventist. There are paintings of Jesus in his waiting room and in his office, and "literature" (in the waiting room) about creation, yada yada yada. But he has been by far her best neurologist (out of 5 or so). I have yet to be able to reconcile this in my own mind.

@greyeyed123 yes, we all know people like this. It comes down to brain segmentation I believe, but I am only a reader of this type of research and not an authority.

1

I think the mind is capable of believing in god because it has the ability to hope, to conceive of perfection, to aspire. My guess is it would be unusual, and maybe a sign of something not working well if a person couldn't conceive of the idea of god. That's where I think wiring comes into it.

Believing might just be the externals affecting the wiring - where you're born etc. Not believing might just be not seeing the evidence to support belief.

I'm differentiating between conceiving and believing. Are some people prone to believing (accepting as true) in god/the supernatural, while others are far less or simply not prone to believing them?

I think you shouldn't differentiate the two because there would be no belief without the ability to conceive something to believe in.

@brentan That wouldn't be the differentiation. The difference would be that you can conceive of something you don't believe in. (Although I think it may be possible that some people can't conceive of things others believe in, as it is certainly possible some people can't conceive of things other people actually KNOW about.)

My initial comment dealt with that.

0

I think that, as social animals, we are prone to lean in to things that promote communities and religion has been a big part of that. Unfortunately the very things about it that gives us the dopamine hit also makes it an excellent tool for controlling people in that community.
I think at the beginning of my own journey towards atheism, I did think that there was maybe a flaw in my mind that wouldn't allow me to blindly believe. Now I think it's because I fulfill my need for community in other ways so I had no reason to indulge in the cognitive dissonance necessary for believing in gods.

@uuberdude We do. And gaming theory uses it against us everyday. But the rituals used in religion are designed the same way very deliberately. I'm not saying that it was the only source of that, just that it does do it.Maybe if we got everyone hooked on WoW/Fortnite/Harry Potter: Wizards Unite cough I know nothing cough they wouldn't necessarily associate church as their primary source of satisfaction.

0

I think a lot of people find comfort in the promise that when they die, they get cured of all of their ailments and reunited with their loved ones, and that good people get rewarded and bad people punished in an afterlife, even if their good or bad deeds weren't rewarded or punished in this one.

The price of those promises is not questioning too deeply whether they actually make sense, and just accepting that they are true. And that's the basis of most faith, and in turn, religion.

It's a lot like doing the lottery. If you looked at the odds of actually winning the jackpot (once in several thousand lifetimes, if you did it every week) you wouldn't bother (which I don't.) What keeps it going, is faith that you can break those odds and be the one who ends up rich beyond their dreams. Even though, if you give it some thought, it's massively unlikely that you would.

0

I don’t think belief or disbelief are very important, and those words are not a good way to describe a person.

There are many ideas and concepts that we think about and discuss, ideas very worthy but probably not provable. We might lean toward belief or disbelief without knowing for sure.

If someone leans toward belief in some phenomenon and we lean toward disbelief, it is tempting to dismiss their views by saying that they were born with genetic traits that cause them to believe. That way we don’t have to actually address the issue.

Very often people who profess disbelief in religion have their own set of questionable and unproven beliefs in other things.

I have no doubt everything you say is true, but I do think some people are more prone to believing certain things than other people are. Have you not noticed this in people around you?

@greyeyed123 Yes, I have.

Good point. I can’t say if it’s genetic or something else. I’m thinking.

0

Yes but is it that some people are hard wired for belief, or is it that some people lack the wiring for skeptical thinking. Until language came along, (Quite late in evolutionary terms.) we could have had virtually no culture, why therefore would we have any evolved traits to deal with the consequences of culture, especially its abilities to manipulate us ?

There may be something to this, but some believers have no problem demonstrating skepticism and critical thinking outside of their beliefs. Some of this may be due to indoctrination at a young age, where you learn at a basic level how the world works. I think "Jesus" (or whatever) just gets lumped in with mommy, daddy, sky, ground, food, etc., until questioning it would be like questioning the existence of trees (then we get the old "look at the trees" argument).

0

I believed in a religious viewpoint at an early age and suffered from it. I don't think I knew I had a choice of what to believe until I was about 13, then I did not believe. I don't think there is a specific wiring for it. I think it preyed on my emotions.

Aggy Level 4 June 22, 2019
0

Some is emotional crutch

bobwjr Level 10 June 22, 2019

I think this is true, but even as a child, I would rather know a painful truth than a comforting lie. Maybe that's just how I'm wired.

0

I think some religions are easier to escape than others. I suppose those that teach that doubting is an unpardonable sin might hold the indoctrinated longer than those that teach of a more merciful and loving God. It just seems that way to me.

0

[google.com]
It could be genetic

0

It's an interesting question. I think I am a follower, as my mother I believe also was. Perhaps that's why I didn't question much of what I was taught at a young age. Yet I have asked various people I've known when they knew what they believed or not. Usually it was around 12 years old. I just wanted to please my mother. And because of that, I really wasn't set free even remotely until she passed away. I deliberately refuse to get sucked into any other type of control group because I know I tend to follow.

0

Some people just have a need to believe in something and if they do and that doesn't harm anyone else, then it is ok with me. So get on your spaceship and go to another Galaxy if you so desire.

There is somewhat of a holy war between Star Trek and Star Wars fans. I would insert Babylon 5 and Doctor Who, but I've always been a heretic.

0

It all depends on those around you and what you are taught. As a younger man I personally believed in a lot of woo. I studied woo and had explanations for all the woo. As time went on I found that there is no evidence for any of it. None at all.

If I had been brought up in a certain flavor of cult as a toddler forward, I could see me getting caught up in it completely. I have difficulty believing the same for any flavor of Christianity, but Christianity wasn't overtly pushed on me much at all growing up. (I went to Sunday school briefly with a neighbor when I was 7 or 8.)

0

I believe it's a security issue. If you develop a good maternal bond then your ability to trust normally develops as well. This lets you drop your guard and trust more on faith. However, if your ability to trust is altered then you need more than faith and you question things more.

Maybe. I had a great relationship with my mom.

0

There are a lot of people who deeply need someone/something to be "in charge" and looking out for them....I blame crappy oarenting.

Hitchens talks about the religious compulsion to love someone you also fear as also a sadomasochistic impulse. My personality also rejects all of that. If I truly feared someone, any love I had for them would have to take a backseat to the fear (and I don't see how love could develop first and then fear without extraordinary unforeseen circumstances, and I don't see how love could develop at all if fear was there from the beginning). And S&M has no appeal at all, lol.

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