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Anti-Mormon Inoculation

Request for community input:

My elder son, 22yo, newly graduated, just moved to the Upper Midwest 2 months ago for a new job. His overbearing mother had always wanted him to become a Christian, but the skepticism he picked up from my firm but gentle atheism - and my generally better relationship with him overall - had kept him from making the "leap of faith" in the past. That was even true through his college years where he felt like he didn't have much choice but to socialize extensively w Christians when the only alternative he saw to them were drunken frat boys whom he detested. I wasn't successful in persuading him that he was overlooking people who fell into neither category. Even so, in 4 years he didn't buy the doctrine that the Christians were trying to sell him.

But I just learned from his mom this morning, and she herself just learned yday, that he's apparently scheduled to be baptized into Mormonism in 2 weeks! Kid is obviously lonely so far from home, stressed by a demanding new job, and he likes to go-along-to-get-along w ppl who aren't his family. I am certain he doesn't have the slightest idea what he is getting himself into, and I'm reasonably confident that I'll be able to talk him through this and out the other side without him taking that plunge. He's one of those kids who will balk and resist pressure but is open to gentle suasion that respects his independence. That's how i kept him out of the evangelical movement as long as i have. He asks good questions ... but he's also anxious to be agreeable.

My question is: what suggestions do folks have for strategies to inoculate him better against the Mormon missionary onslaught?

I've given myself a crash course on Mormonism today just so i can speak about issues without sounding like a bigot. Here's the family of issues I've found, in no particular order:

  1. Fictional world history (no archaeological, linguistic, genetic or anthropological evidence for a Hebrew or other Semitic settlement of North America)
  2. No evidence of Old World plants and animals described in Book of Mormon as being brought to the Americas prior to Columbus ( except briefly Vikings in Newfoundland who are much later than alleged Nephites anyway)
  3. No astronomical support for validity of Mormon cosmology (Kolob as galactic or metagalactic center of the universe; relocation of Earth from Kolob's vicinity to orbit around Sun, etc.)
  4. Mormonism's history of sexism
  5. Its history of racism
  6. Its history of homophobia
  7. Smith as charlatan and fraudster (need more details on this) ... Other leaders too?
    8 ] Mountain Meadows Massacre
  8. Mormonism's repressive ideas about human sexuality, including strict dress codes
  9. Its history of baptism after death without even familial consent (officially they seek it but often don't)
  10. The enormous economic and thus political power of the LDS Church (need more details)
  11. The expectations of marrying within the Mormon faith (so what happens if he or his as yet unknown gf/wife want to bail?)
  12. The pressures to raise children in the Mormon faith (my unconceived grandchildren ... not my business but it is if they are harmed through indoctrination into nonsense)

So what aspects (whether from those listed above or from some i may have overlooked) would you recommend i highlight in my upcoming convo w my son? Links would help, preferably not too dense nor too angry (he'll stop listening if he thinks it is bigoted)

I'm inviting input from everyone on Agnostic on this, but I'm tagging a bunch of you, either bc you're already my friend or bc i can tell from other posts that you already have considerable experience with the Mormon issue. Those of you I've tagged who just contributed to the thread about Mormon attitudes toward hot beverages, you needn't repeat yourself on anything you said there. But you're definitely invited to expand on any of it - or to go in a different direction, whatever you think might help. Thank you!

Tagging: @davknight, @DharmaBum50, @EllenDale, @FlippantLlama, @Haemish1, @Joanne, @LenHazell53, @RichCC, @t1nick, @UpsideDownAgain, @VictoriaNotes

Tagged folks, don't feel that you have to respond! It's simply an invitation bc i have reason to value your input on this.

vertrauen 7 Aug 17
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24 comments

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4

My story on www.exmormon.org can be found here: [exmormon.org]

Long story short, if your child is endowed with and has internalized the level of skepticism you believe rubbed off on him through your efforts, it will eventually be apparent. Surrendering to feelings in spite of facts may work well for him for a while, but certain ugly truths may prove hard to accept down the road. If he is truly a thinking man who values Independent thought, he will have to figure it out on his own. I realize it must hurt like hell to have to watch the forthcoming shit show and for that I do feel for you. Good luck.

Source:

That's a riveting account of yours. I read every word until near the very end when I could see the light of your escape. I wouldn't have skimmed even that but I have to get to bed. I am so sorry that happened to you. Thank you also for the associated website. It is very good.

3

The Bool of Abraham that Joseph Smith „translated“ from Egyptian scrolls turned out to Egyptianfuneral texts.

[fairmormon.org]

[coldcasechristianity.com]

Myah Level 6 Aug 17, 2019
3

I am at a bit of an advantage here because I know you in person. And, therefore, I know that you are not about trying to control your son. This is not your way—at all. I know that you simply want your son to have all the relevant information so he can make an informed decision; and, everything I know about Mormonism lets me know that they are not about that. Many, if not most, Mormons do not have a clue about many of the things that are in their Church doctrine; so, how can someone who has only been exposed to it for a couple of months, who is likely being wooed and groomed, really know what he is getting into? Yes, he is an adult; but he is still young and susceptible. And, YES, from what I know about him through you, he is likely feeling isolated and lonely.
This said, my recommendation is for you to have a good talk with your son. Ask him why he believes that Mormonism is for him? What is it that they teach that speaks truth to him? Questions along that line. I would let him know that you did not know much about Mormonism and wanted to learn a few things about it; and, I would bring up the things that you learned. I would mention any "virtues" that you discovered-- and then the things that concern you. And, knowing you, I know you will stand behind your son-- whatever he decides, loving him and making it clear that no matter what you will always be there for him.

Thank you, my dear. Yes, you do have the advantage of not being in any danger of mistaking where my heart is at as a father.

3

You missed out the 10% of his income... for life. But that`s okay because he cannot spend it on beer or coffee.

3

You should take him to watch that play by the creators of South park, " the book of Mormon " they do a really good job of making fun of the religion without being offensive. Plus it will let him know that he doesn't need to be in an organized religion to have friends.

3

If he is a coffee drinker, he is safe!

Mate, your son is 22. You should trust him by now. If you cannot trust him ... well ... With all due respect, perhaps you have to grow up and let it go.

On Children by Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

Thank you for the sentiment. I get all of that. Letting him make his own choices, including mistakes, has been the way I've maintained credibility with him over the last 8+ years where his mother has had little. But he's not mature, he's still maturing. I'm certain he hasn't done his homework on this.

@vertrauen I understand you dilemma. My daughter was 17 when she asked me whether I allowed her to become a Christian. Later she even downgraded to become a JW. Now she has a daughter, who might one day tell her that she is really an atheist.

Relax and let things happen!

2

Hello. I live in Salt Lake City and have for about 30 years. I'm quite familiar with your problem. Your summary of Mormonism pretty much says it all, so if that didn't convince your son then unfortunately he will have to learn the hard way. You, however did not mention the real purpose of the church and the missionary's , it has more to do with money and power than any spiritual quest. The 10% tithe speaks for it self. The proselytizing is a means to get other people involved in this kind of Ponzi scheme. Much of the business community are LDS and this is where deals are made and business is conducted between the "Faithful".They have a very active refugee wing and this is to provide labor at cheap rates for LDS church programs, which can also be used as public relations fodder. The LDS church is tax-exempt and they make good use of this charade. I use to think when I first moved here was what kind of christian church doesn't have a cross neither inside or outside? It's like who would go to a synagogue without The Star of David. Good luck with your son maybe he'll wise up when they get their hands in his pocket.

Oh, I could tell some very true and 100% factual tales from the very inside of the Mormon ( Moron) faith that would really open up your eyes.
Ones like;
a) their shareholdings in corporations such as Coca-Cola Amatil yet they demand that Mormons deny themselves ANY drinks/substances that may contain caffeine, numerous Coffee trading Companies, certain Banking Corporations, etc, etc.
I could go on for pages upon pages BUT I'll let you do your own research instead.

2

The first thing that comes to mind is the prominent aspect of the Mormon church to glory in being "persecuted" for their beliefs. In modern times, in the absence of any real persecution, they'll grasp at straws to make out that they're being persecuted. So I would exercise extreme caution in approaching your son with the negative things you've found. He may be open to them or the whole experience may be used to build him up as a "faithful believer" who's being persecuted for his new beliefs by his misguided family member.

The way I would approach the situation is by listening first. I'd ask what his reasoning is and listen, including doing my best to clue into unspoken signals that might help me understand things that aren't being said. I'd make sure I understood the best I could where he was coming from before deciding how to address the situation. I would also approach the situation with the intention to support him in whatever decision he made. That is the best thing you can do to offset the possibility that your actions might be used to build him up as a martyr by the church members.

You might know your son well enough to know that he just needs to be exposed to the information you listed to be dissuaded from joining and if so feel free to disregard what I've said. Otherwise, I would say be very cautious.

While I don't believe your concern is misplaced, I would also say don't worry too much of he does end up getting baptized. The majority of people who join the church drop out again right after joining. It's probably the sudden pressure to go to church every Sunday, go ministering every month, pay one tenth of your income, dress "modestly," attend pretty much every church activity, prepare to go to the temple, and so on and so forth. There's a good chance he won't stick around very long.

Thank you. Good advice. It was my intention to proceed w caution. I just wanted to be prepared for whatever direction the convo might take, like a photographer who takes many more exposures than s/he will actually ever use.

@vertrauen Good luck with it. I hope everything works out for the best.

2

I lived in Utah for years as a non-Mormon, check out Fawn Brodie’s (born & bred a Mormon) No Man Knows My History, a definitive work on Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church. It’s eye-opening and factual. Hope it helps. You could mention, besides blood atonement, that the amount of African Americans lynched by Mormons is appreciable to the amount of African Americans lynched in the South.

Or refer him to Mae West, “Oh you stupid Mormon” being one of the classic cinematic lines of all time.

2

My biggest heartache as an outsider looks at them would likely be the hypocrisy. Their 'religion' has been a scam from the beginning. They are set up to gather converts by-hook-or-by-crook then hope to keep them later by inertia. Look up their 'Milk Before The Meat' doctrine.

Their 'Prophets' get 'revelations' when it's politically convenient. A trigger for me was 1978 when minorities looked like they were growing into some political power so the church president had a 'revelation' that they could be church officers, at least officially. (But of course not women -- 'they have a different calling'.)

The LDS is purely a political organization. Their goal is nothing more or less than monetary and political growth. My wife did their training as a teenager and they were quite blatant about it -- the taught that missionaries were going to be lonely and vulnerable when they get home -- so the women should grab one, marry and get pregnant. They pushed the most direct route to solidify and grow their organization. That was one of my later wife's biggest triggers to get clear of them.

I was going to dig out some simple links but decided that your list is about as good a starting point as I could provide. Just search Wikipedia and Google for some of the terms on your list -- Brigham Young, Joseph Smith(especially 'criminal justice system' ), Mountain Meadows Massacre, etc.

As far as your son goes... I would just try to be honest with him. Try to get him to look at the church from perspectives other than their own propaganda. They don't look very good in other views.

2

The problem that some may not get of someone getting ready to convert to Mormonism is that they do not get the whole story from Mormon missionaries, and the Mormon conversion machine is geared to fellowshipping potential converts. At one time, a General Conference theme encouraged all Mormon families to select someone or another family for conversion. They were supposed to put the family on project mode to get them baptised.

We knew a couple who were good friends and the guy had been a missionary in the LA area in California. He tells the story of teaching Debbie Boon daughter of Pat Boon. At one point, Pat Boon supplied his daughter with "anti-Mormom literature" which she found apalling. She shared shared it with the missionaries on her last visit with them. Our friend was so disturbed by what he was presented with, that went about trying to prove it false, but instead only confirmed most of it enough so that he left and took his family with him.

My current view of Mormonism is that it began as a cult of personality with narcissist Joseph Smith. From my reading, the Smith family were all steeped in magical thinking to an extreme. They apparently engaged in treasure hunting using "seer stones" (which later were used to "translate" the Book of Mormon texts). Joseph Smith was engaged in a number of activities typical of narcissists like infidelity - which was later covered up with the institution of polygamy.

More in a bit, I need to take a break. A good book as a reference is Fawn Brodie's No Man Knows My History. The section on polygamy which is toward the end of the book was very eye opening. The other book I read was The Writings of John D Lee. This one disspelled a lot of the misinformation about the Mountain Meadows Massacre which I had been told from faithful members. Lee's two trials also demonstrated the cult control Brigham Young had on the membership which caused them to lose their own personal integrity in order to demonstrate their faithfulness.

The issue of presenting negative information to your son, you might suggest that he may want to examine both sides of what he is being told before making a decision to join. He is likely being treated a bit like royalty at this stage, which will likely change soon after baptism.

Be prepared to have anything negative about the Mormons be called lies. This was something I struggled with on my way out. I felt it was clear that a certain amount of what is said negative about the church was untrue, embellished by those anxious to prove their point or to justify their own position. I also found reason to believe that the church leaders lied or obfuscated certain bits of information uncomplimentary of the church. The situation around Paul H Dunn was particularly telling to me at the time. In the end, I decided it didn't matter how many lies anti-Mormons told (their actions only made determining the truth more difficult), but that church leaders couldn't be trusted was a big problem for me. Mormons are told how special these leaders are and how they csn be trusted implicitly in all matters. But it just isn't true. Their job is to protect the church and to increase its revenue by gaining members. They are willing to lie and to look the other way whiles others within their ranks lie.

In the end, it is ultimately your son's decision to join or not to join, but you obviously know this to be the case. I wish you the best in interacting with your son, and I wish you both happiness however this situation turns out.

Briefly what are the primary Mormon misrepresentations of the Mountain Meadows Massacre? The fact that Lee was executed at Young's orders would tend - on the face of it - to put Church leadership in the clear. I take it that Lee was a scapegoat and Young complicit?

@vertrauen - It's difficult to say what the primary Mormon misrepresentation because there are so many. Mormons are willing to believe and perpetuate (for the most part) any scenario that exonerates the Mormon church, and some of the beliefs are outlandish. I was told by one faithful member that certain members of the wagon train were Missourians who claimed to have Joseph Smith's scrotum and supposedly threatened Mormons along their journey. They were also accused of poisoning water sources along the way especially those used by the indians. Equally outlandish claims have been made by the other side.

I find it difficult to summarize this event without a few more details and I hope you will bare with me if it gets a bit long. I will attempt to keep it short.

The Francher Wagon Train entered Salt Lake valley near Salt Lake City which is a typical route for those traveling west to Califofnia. Utah territory and the Mormons were fearful of the US government since rumors were that the US army was headed there with promises of the US President to address the polygamy situation there. Mormon had been persecuted in the past by govt. (They also did their share of persecuting, but they don't hear that side).

Anyway, the wagon train leaders may have met with Brigham Young (I don't recall) but they headed south through the length of the valley since the terrain west of Cedar City was more easily traversed. Along the way, they encountered Mormons who were reluctant to sell them supplies because they were worried about the US army arriving. They had been told by church leaders to escape into the mountains if threatened and they believed they would need their supplies to survive. Angry words may have been exchanged since both wanted resources the Mormons possessed. Mormons often sold supplies to wagon trains traveling west so withholding these supplies was probably not understood.

As the wagon train headed west away from Cedar City they were attacked by indians (who the Mormons recruited) and they were disabled unable to proceed at this point. Some Mormon men may have joined in with the indians, I don't recall, but it quickly became evident that the Mormons were involved in at least planning the attack. Imo, this sealed the wagon trains fate. I don't believe the Mormons would allow themselves to be part of this event harming these people.

Motivations for the Mormon's attack may have included a blood oath added to the Mormon temple ceremony to avenge the death of Joseph Smith (this oath was later removed). The thinking was reportedly reinforced by a traveling Mormon apostle who left Salt Lake City after the Francher wagon train arrived in the city and ahead of their departure. I believe church detractors see this as Brigham Young instructing the attack, but am more willing to believe it was a misunderstanding amid raised tensions anticipating the army's arrival. There are also some reports which say the Mormons feared the wagon train was supposed to direct US forces on the west coast to Utah territory. No evidence to my knowledge that this was the case.

Anyway, the wagon train was stranded on Mountain Meadows and they had repelled the indians (and possibly Mormons) I don't recall if there were any other attacks, there may have been. The wagon train had taken casualties and were running low on supplies. The Mormons with Lee taking a leading role negotiated a surrender in which the wagon train gave up all their weapons, and they were to be escorted back to Cedar City. But the Mormons have other plans. They separated the wagon train members men from women and the very young children. They had the indians escort the women because none of the Mormon men wanted to kill a woman. Women were aways away from the group of men when a prearranged signal was given and the killing began. Within less than 5 minutes, 120 pioneers headed to Calufornia were dead. About a dozen and a half children survived the slaughter. One or two of the children were old enough to start talking about what they witnessed and they were removed not to be seen or heard of again. Most of the children were returned to family wherever they existed, but a couple of children were believed to have been adopted and raised by their Mormon foster families. This isn't to say they didn't have family, but the foster families fell in love with the child and hid them from any family who came to claim them.

According to the book about John D Lee, the Mormons had a great deal of conflict of what to do with the wagon train after the first attack. Some were certain they needed to be killed others not certain at all. They decided to send a rider to Salt Lake for direction. But it was a long journey and the massacre was carried out before the rider returned. Young's direction was to let them pass. Having recieved this news, Lee and another local leader went to Salt Lake to meet wit Young. At first, Young was disturbed by the account, but later claimed that God had sanctioned it. I'm a bit fuzzy on the exact degree of approval, but he was reassuring to Lee and his companion.

At sometime after the US army arrived, an investigation into the massacre began (this was something like 10 to 20 years after the fact). Eventually, indictments were issued for 9 Mormon men. Since Young had absolved these men, the Mormon community was uncooperative in apprehending them. But, eventually, all 9 were caught. 8 of the 9 - all but Lee - followed Young direction and pleaded guilty to the charge and were given light sentences. Lee was the hold out because be apparently believed in his innocence. Lee's first trial had a mix of Mormon and non-Mormon jurors. Only 1 witness was called to testify who was (I believe) Lee's companion when they met with Young after the massacre. He had since left the Mormon church and lived in Nevada. His testimony was in exchange for immunity. The outcome of this trial (as expected) was a hung jury with all non-Mormons voting to convict and all Mormons voting to aquit (Young still supported Lee at this point).

In the run up to Lee's second trial, Young again tried to convince Lee to plead guilty and put the whole thing behind them. The situation was bringing nagative attention to the Mormon church. But Lee refused maintai ing his innocence. By the time the second trial was to begin, Lee had lost Young's support and it became widely known. Witnesses for the second trial came puring out of the woodwork. The court had to suspend the trial to interview witnesses because it became clear that some of them could not have been at Mountain Meadows to witness anything. Eventually, the trial resumed. The new witnesses (who were Mormons) could remember in stark detail the actions of Lee that day, but could not recall at all the actions of anyone else. Some of the Mormons at Mountain Meadows were apparently opposed to killing anyone and they were instructed to shoot into the air. By the accounts of these Mormon witnesses, everyone but Lee shot their guns into the air (my exaggeration, but you understand my meaning). Of course, Lee was convicted and eventually executed. I believe the jury of his second trial was made up all of Mormons and they convicted him shortly after the trial was complete - not much deliberation if any at all. During the course of his incarceration through the 2 trials, only 3 of his 19 wives stayed with him, and each one that left took a portion of his property. Lee was a pauper when he died.

So, there you have it. You are very likely to find plenty of people who will take issue with this account, and I can't say it doesn't include errors. This is how I see the event from my reading taken mostly from "The writings of John D Lee" and from internet sources. I hope you can find something helpful.

@RussRAB thank you again. This is very helpful for my overall understanding of the issue.

2

Let him do his own figuring out. Outlining everything that is wrong or false about Mormonism may only cause him to dig in his heels. He is young enough that this may still just represent an exploration that he will return from. Even if he doesn't, becoming a Mormon is not the worst thing that could happen to him.

It is interesting that you only suddenly found out about his interest in the LDS. Obviously I don't know you or your family, so just a wild guess here. He is really flying the coop now and needs to feel he is taking a path separate from both you and his mother.

Thanks. That last is a very reasonable hypothesis based on earlier temperamental characteristics of his, and I absolutely noticed the aptness of his choosing neither/nor here.

But I don't think it is intentional, not even on the part of his semi-conscious. His mother is Chinese and knows virtually nothing about Mormonism, so she hasn't been in a position to say anything against it. I didn't tell him anything much about LDS, either, when he was growing up and nothing at all in the last maybe 6 years. Extent of our convo would have been a very brief q&a maybe about a big LDS church we were passing when he was about 14 or 15. At the time I would have been reluctant to say anything critical about LDS bc I figured he'd hear that elsewhere in Baptist country.

So not exactly the best material for him to express defiance today. I think the current LDS missionary is just selling Mormonism as rebranded Protestantism and obscuring all the additional 19th-century peculiarities. He had no LDS contact at college, so all of this has happened in 2 months. Plus, he's extremely busy at work => I don't think he's looked anything up.

1

Sounds to me like he's doing this for a woman, like the french say, cherchez la femme!

I was thinking the same thing! There must be a woman involved (or at least a romance). He is an adult. Chances are very good that with everything you have taught him, he will eventually return to his roots. I wouldn’t worry too much. It may be a good learning experience for him.

1

He may have become interested , because of a female he's met , who is Mormon .

Hopefully, an adult female human being, a.k.a. "a woman." 😉

Pardon me, (not picking on you at all. You're not alone in the least. "Female" has become very common), but what has happened to the word "woman" in the last 30 years? Where I went to college in the 1980s, we all learned very quickly our first year (if we didn't know already) that our female peers were women, not "girls," because they were adults and deserved to be respected accordingly.

Now using "girls" to describe women would still be a faux pas today, to say the least, but the word "females" now crops up all over the place where it's obvious that adult human beings are meant and therefore "women." Last month alumnae from my alma mater did thank me on FB for reminding folks that calling women "females" tends to seem to reduce them to their reproductive organs. But women as well as men call women "females" all the time now even when no-one under 18 could be included in the group.

What's going on? What have I missed? Are there now numerous women who prefer to be called "females"? I'll oblige if that's what most women want, but it sounds demeaning to me.

P.S. Trans women are women, so it's not about that.

1

Pedophilia is kind of a thing in Mormon history as well.

1

Maaan.... that's tough. You don't suppose this could be work related, do you? New boss with previously unknown requisite perhaps?

I did wonder that, thanks. I know nothing about the supervisor, but I did check out the company a bit online. Doesn't appear to be part of the Mormon conglomerate. Company founder was either Quaker or nothing in particular.

1

You are understandably upset, but unfortunately, there is nothing you can
do, except let your son know you love him and are always there for him.
He's an adult, and is free to make his own decisions, even if they are completely
fucked up and wrong.
Hopefully, he'll see the error of his choices and return to reason.
I'll keep a good thought for both of you.
Hang in there.

1

It’s his life, not yours.

Granted. But I'd try to talk anyone out of a plunge of less than 2 months after first contact w a missionary, even if he/she weren't family. Then live and let live after that.

I think the LDS missionary is deliberately obscuring the differences with mainstream Protestantism, which I don't care for either but the latter would be easier for me to process since he's been hanging out w evangelicals for several years. He knows stuff about that. Has said he didn't buy it, but OK if he decides to buy it, at least I know where that came from

1

He's newly graduated from college so just ask him if he really subscribes to a belief system made up by a career con man who claimed he saw divinely written gold letters he read in a hat using a magic stone as a translation tool all on the advice of an angel who came to him in a dream.

If he says yes then you can kiss all that tuition money goodbye.

In MISSOURI of all places!

@motrubl4u, @JonnaBononna He's not in Missouri.

@motrubl4u Oh, now I get it. Jonna was probably talking about Smith's attempt to set up his Zion in Missouri. I lost track of which "he" was being referred to. Mea culpa. Smith moved around so much that I missed that allusion.

0

There is something you don’t seem to understand. The effort of the Mormons is your going to like this. This is honoring utopia.

Here is a few helpful things to define your inoculation task.

  1. Your right it is not factual in some things but intelligent approaches to hide these inconsistencies are difficult to discern. A Mormon can always doubt the facts and feel he has done the right thing. There is a great amount of intelligence in the Mormon church teachings much of it surpassing what you might obtain from any other one source.

  2. The leaders know it is not possible to keep members there based on the history, doctrine, beliefs, and etc. So they assign you friends, give you spouses, give you prophesied Patriarchal blessings, aspirations and helping others assignments and more, while knowing it isn’t founded on all truth. Paraphrase from Mormon leaders ‘When you know that there is no God, then your in the resurrection bringing about the cause of Zion’. A linguistic double bing approach to listening to Mormon leaders is worth pursuing.

  3. Joseph Smith said the most righteous follower of Jesus was Mahonri Moriancumer. If you clarify mouthing the words it is My Honoring Morean Comer. Thomas Moore wrote the book Utopia in the early 1500’s and was a popular read. The mouthing of words is prevalent in the Book of Mormon such as Moroni-‘More On It’ and Mormon-‘More Man’

  4. The Mormon church is the God Machine best version spoken of by Benjamin Franklin. There other not so good versions out there. It is supported by the United States as a tool to get into other countries, public relations support, and voice to make the USA ordained of god. The Mason’s temple teachings are similar-although not permitted to speak about it they are supported by these founders of our country.

  5. The Mormon church is an multi billion dollar corporation with employment, education, welfare, and prestige to be apart of.

  6. Now why you will not like your membership in the Mormon church, is the question you should address for inoculation. Study what people have had to do for this false god.

0

Update:

Having meanwhile spoken w my son, I thought some of you might appreciate an update.

For those who doubted my account, my son confirmed that his first contact w Mormon missionaries was just 2 months ago. By the time I was speaking with him this past Thursday, his mother, his uncle and the latter's wife (with whom my son is particularly close) had persuaded him that he might be "coming in too hot" on this, so he had called off the scheduled August 31 baptism. Of course, he's still interested in exploring this (his good right), and it seems likely at the moment that he will eventually join the LDS church unless he does more of his homework and finds in the process that it doesn't add up for him after all. We talked for about 90 minutes during which he talked about what he'd found appealing about the missionaries (principally their apparent emotional strength, stability, and compassion, areas in which he finds himself sorely lacking) and I planted some seeds of things he should be checking up on about the Mormon tradition (not the whole list, for those commenters here who still imagine I'm an idiot ... )

Thank you to everyone who contributed constructively to my knowledge of Mormonism as requested. Thank you also to everyone who expressed confidence in my intelligence and capacity to interact appropriately with my adult son. Thank you finally to those who might have had some concern about the latter but who at least were insightful and cautious enough in their expression thereof not to outright insult my intelligence.

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Get him a trip to Nevada with a few prepaid tickets to nice bordellos. The kid needs sex!

zesty Level 7 Aug 19, 2019
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Most young men have a rebellious streak, and Mormonism may seem like a way to rebel against his mother while pleasing her.

And while it may take a ceremony to become a member of a church, there's no ceremony involved in walking away from it. Unless, of course, he signs one of those horrible tithing agreements where the take the money directly out of your bank account. ☹

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I agree with @SeaGreenEyez on this. He is an adult and has a right to make his own choices and to recover from them if he changes his mind later. Maybe he deserves more respect than you telling him that he’s just bowing to pressure. He may sincerely feel at home there. I know some wonderful people who are Mormons. Let him do his thing and set a boundary if you don’t want him trying to convert you.

UUNJ Level 8 Aug 17, 2019

I wouldn't tell him that he's just bowing to pressure, even if I'm worried about it. That would be counterproductive.

There's no question that he's an adult and it is his right to make decisions. I've been telling him that much longer than his mother has.

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