Maybe. It is boring to be right all the time!

@zesty I agree with you about over-aggressive police. The Eric Garner case in NYC was a big deal about that. I think each incident needs to be evaluated on an individual basis, and this shooter was clearly at a place where anything could set him off.

@bleurowz Yes, sure. As an expert witness I worked many cases. It was initially surprising, but whenever the police was involved, they lied, constantly covered up their mistakes and brutality. One thing I learned, as long as you didn't check and double checked everything, didn't read thousands of pages of depositions, you have no idea what happened. Never trust info given by a cop.

Looks like. Well, I don't have a too high opinion of policemen in general. No question, there are some decent guys among them, maybe.

@zesty They're better in (some) other countries. Pretty friendly and helpful in Spain, unless you deal drugs.

@MissKathleen No. The police are indeed side-armed, but only the special Guardia Civil carry serious weaponry, and then only when tackling serious terrorism.
Most also have a love of laughing and joking.

@MissKathleen The Guardia Civil carried serious weaponry, but not the local police, when we first lived in Spain (32 years ago), but over the years this has changed.

@MissKathleen Had there been a recent terrorist attack, possibly by ETA? What year were you there?

@MissKathleen That was a period of intense Basque separatist attacks on the main cities, so the Guardia would have been heavily armed.

I play with a lot of young black guys. The stories they tell me regarding police stops are mindboggling.

@zesty
No doubt that racism is inherent in our society and judicial system.

@Haemish1 It is inherent in all aspects. Not that I care, but some people I know think that I'm a slut because I sleep with black guys too. One of these women actually works as a civil rights attorney.

@zesty
I’m guessing that woman probably objects to any type of sex outside of marriage?
If race is her basis of judging you, she’s got no business doing civil rights work.

@Haemish1 are you guys actually reading what you are typing?I really don't hink you are....fucking grow up

@lookinhard
I’m wondering what got your panties in a wad?
Why not come out and say what you’re objecting to, rather than question my maturity?

@Haemish1 i think if you.......ya know what? My saying anything is going to go completely unheeded.You guys are simply too smart and too open minded for this dumbass.A hint? Go back and read

@lookinhard
There’s a lot of ground covered those remarks.
Certainly your voice will go unheeded if you can’t articulate something intelligible.

@Haemish1 once again you are correct.as I said earlier I am but a dumbass in the presence of some of the folks in this conversation.I stand humbled and stupid before you

@lookinhard
Playing the passive aggressive card works too.
Coming out and saying what you mean might work better.

@Haemish1 explain to me how zesty went from strongarm police tactics to people thinking shes a slut for being with lots of men.If YOU can understand that it just strengthens my belief in what i have been saying.and your passive agressive quote just makes me realize that I am dealing with a person with much more intelligence than myself.Perhaps you confuse passive agressive with pure flat out sarcasm.Maybe you can read a report that can explain that.Thats one example,shall i go on.I think not

@Haemish1 you also might want to read Wildflowers comment below. I aint da only one what thinks this is all ao fucking stupid that we don't have any idea what y`all are blabbering about.

@lookinhard
I’m not arguing that the police shouldn’t have pulled over this individual, or that the police were responsible for his actions.
I do think that certain personality types are drawn to careers in law enforcement, and that they enjoy asserting their power over others. I think that having a gun tends augment that superiority in many (not all) officers.
I do believe that racism is deeply enmeshed in our society, and deeply within our judicial system.

@Haemish1 I am done.you win.this is the craziest conversation ever possibly.Just how many police officers do you know well enough to be able to make that claim.Im willing to bet none.You like so many others,are so quick to get caught up in bullshit theories.and I really don't care how many reports you have read claiming you are correct.Just let me know the last time you sat with a bunch of cops and learned about them.I eagerly await this classic response

@Haemish1 i don't believe you responded to either of my requests.......I am shocked

@lookinhard

[google.com]

[ncjrs.gov]

[google.com]

[theamericanconservative.com]

@lookinhard
I’ve known two police officers (one a county sheriff)

My last encounter with a police officer was within the last 2 weeks.

My experience as a middle aged white male in Montana is not representative of what the police and minority citizens in in larger cities are faced with.

Tell me your experience with law enforcement.

@Haemish1 ok.....pay attention because you havent yet.I believe I said I didnt care about the REPORTS you have read(especially some conservative hogwash.I believe I asked you about zestys brilliant comments and also asked you about how many officers you actually know.Is there a response to any of that in your response?I am willing to say no at this point.Should I draw pictures with crayons to help you?

@lookinhard
My response is there for you.
Feel free to use the medium you’re most comfortable with to express yourself.

@Haemish1 from 1966 thru 1978 myself and friends were very close with a large number(over 25) NY State Police officers out of the Leeds NY State Police office.We played softball with and against as many as 25 of them.5 played on my team for years.We had bi yearly BBQs with them.My family owned a ceramic business in the area and many of their wives attended,It was common for them to just stop in and grab a cup of coffee and talk.The recent sherriff of Greene couny was a kid that i coached in little league and we still had lunch or beers until i left there last year,Afer moving to Texas I got to kmow a large number because I worked in a restaurant just outside of Austin that was frquented quite often by State,County and local officers.Again,it was common place for me to meet up with them fir coffee,a meal,a drink etc.At this moment,even tho I am in Colorado right now,one of my closest friends is a saergent on the Swat team for the Greene county sherriffs office.A woman I was with for 3 years has a son that is a swat team officer at the maximum secutity prison here in Colorado.OH...WAIT...I almost forgot(not really),my brother i lawa was an officer on the Albany NY police force.Only got to know him over 11 years.So,do ya think that maybe qualifies me a bit more than you as far as ACTUALLY KNOWING what police are like.And SURPRISE,I didnt have to pull up some bullshit conservative rag to try to use as proof.Now,how about answering my other question about zestys comments.Maybe you can google tat

@Haemish1 in which case,read on,cowboy

@lookinhard
That’s wonderful tough guy - your anecdotal experience far outweighs mine.
That’s why I look to published literature from a variety of sources.
As to Zesty’s comments, I think she’s capable of answering your questions.

@Haemish1 TOUGH GUY? you asked for my experience,I gave it to you,you had no real response for the facts given to you so you call me TOUGH GUY?You sir are an embarrassment to anyone with even an iota of intelligence.Admitting to turning to stories you find by googling instead of personal experience makes me laugh at your TOUGH GUY statement.By the way,just what did you google...."am cops bad guys?"So looking forward to your next response.Really.I am.Come on please.

@lookinhard
Seriously a New Yorker calls me “cowboy”?
What “facts” have you presented that are relevant, other than “I know a lot of cops”?
As you admitted, you don’t care about published studies and didn’t bother to look at them, relying instead on your exhaustive knowledge of police and the justice system acquired by chasing a ball and knocking back some beers with with what - 15 or 20 policemen?

Tell me who’s the embarrassment to intelligence?

@Haemish1 So.....please,PLEASE explain to me in all your wisdom,just how does someone get to know another person without being close with them for many years.As you have pointed out,I am way too stupid to understand what it is that I am missing.YOU are the embarrassment to intelligence.Sorry,but you asked me to tell you.Tag....you`re it

@Haemish1 by the way....have you ever been to any part of NY besides the city itself.Most of the state is very rural,farms and ranches are common place.Now I know this will surprise you but....many New Yorkers know what cowboys are.We have actually seen and maybe have even ridden horseback for years.I know,I know,you are reeling from this onslaught of info.Deep breaths will help

@lookinhard
So those officers you know are good guys - that’s great, I hope they are. Law enforcement is a difficult job and needs good people.
But it’s not reasonable to say that all police officers are good because of your experience with those few individuals.
I haven’t portrayed all police as being corrupt or abusive.
The studies and reports that you can’t be troubled to look at offer a different perspective.

Any comments regarding your intelligence are yours, and not mine. I'd welcome a discussion with you based on something more empirical than your anecdotal experience.

@lookinhard
My last visit to the Hudson valley was in May.

You’ve offered nothing in the way of information - yawn.

@Haemish1 and you sir probably shouldnt hold your breath waiting for me to accept your invitation.You are so far superior to my pitiful intelligence I doubt I could stand the pressur.Unless I see you making more idiotic comments.Just sayin.....

@Haemish1 Im impressed.But according to your parameters that doesnt mean a hill of beens.How could you possibly know anything about the area?

@Haemish1 truth be known, I am tired and getting more so dealing with you.I like to think I get something positive out of every conversation I am involved in.But this just put an end to that belief.If you wish to claim some kind of victory here tonight,don't do it.Lying doesnt look good on you

@lookinhard
Get some rest there.
I answered your question, I don’t claim to know a great deal about upstate NY, but I have visited.
I share your desire to gain something beneficial from discussions here, and I try not to keep a scorecard.

@Haemish1 bravo.....goodbye

I'm not sure. It is very easy to drive a person nuts.

@zesty even if he was "nuts" in some way that the police had any control over, that doesn't somehow make what he did ok. Not to mention, over all violence among the mentally ill is lower than violence among the "normies". Thats a diversion from the real problem of gun violence. Do you think police reform would make a difference in the rate of shootings like the one in Odessa? Like, it would help, much less solve any thing?

@zesty he had a loaded ak on the front seat of his fucking car. Get all your facts before you start blabbering just to be heard. Jesus christ people

I know right? So when brown people get stopped and they shoot a cop it's not their fault! It's the cops fault for stopping them. (I'm being sarcastic because this post is so far out there that I can't wrap my head around it).

@Wildflower i’m glad you called out the sarcasm. It didn’ Sound like the Sharon I know

@powder Israel Defense Forces?

@Bobbyzen The me you know is the me I am.

@powder That makes sense. She’s told me the Palestinians need to “get over it” in a convo about Israel’s expulsion and Occupation.

@Wildflower right? I think these folks aint playin with a full deck.They are using as many trite cliches that it is nuts

And how many fucking cops do you actually know to be able to say that?... Let me guess.... None

Well, not everybody can be as intelligent as you are.

Right on the money my friend

What what?

(I think there's a troll in the house.) Shhhhh, maybe it will go away.

To disturb people for a missing turn signal is a sure sign of incompetence and being power hungry.

@zesty No that's what traffic cops do. Sometimes simply to give a verbal warning or to let someone know a light it out.

That they ended up dead? That's not right. That you excuse it? That's really not right.

I got pulled over for just that offense one night.

It made my very drunk friend throw up all over the place - but he also got his light repaired (it was out and we didn't know that - none of us.).

Cops hate traffic stops. They know they can end up dead. But it's part of the job.

@RavenCT The German war criminals had the same opinion - just part of the job. Didn't work in Nurnberg, did it?

@zesty BULL FUCKING SHIT.....Just stop this and grow the fuck up

No. This is my opinion. Cops have way too much power and they intrude our way of life.

@zesty You're blaming cops for a guy pulling out a gun and shooting people? The guy with the gun has no responsibility for going on a shooting spree? SMH

@Wildflower Looks like wrongdoing by many, except for the innocent civilian victims.

@EdEarl The only wrongdoing here is the guy shooting the fucking gun and killing people he had no reason to kill.

@Wildflower Maybe the police provoked him? Actually I watched TV this afternoon and heard the interview with one of the police local chiefs. He called the shooter an animal. The police chief talked and looked like someone with an IQ of 50, looked just like a pig.

@zesty What someone looks like determines if they are guilty? And by who's standard are "looks" defining the line to which we judge? This is the most ignorant defense I have ever heard.

@zesty If I determine that you look like someone who is going to rob me, I can shoot you?

@Wildflower Sure, just hit the target, MOA.

@zesty We are just going farther and farther backward... before we know it we'll be living back in the wild, wild, west!! Maybe we should shoot all those who are stupidly ignorant and bringing us back into the stone age. Interesting concept... I can say, hey he/she looks like they're stupid and they might provoke a fight... I better shoot them. What a better world we will live in!

@Wildflower it is all about police provocation.

@zesty I'm pretty sure the traffic cop got shot, but it's beyond me how you think that ties into the other shootings. And really, if the police had stopped this guy for, say, being in 100 yards of his ex GF or something, that would have justified his homicidal acts as well?

@EdEarl what the fuck did the cops do wrong jesus h christ people....heres a hint.most of us have a brain inside our head.check to see if you do and USE IT FOR FUCKS SAKE

@lookinhard Oh, I agree 100% that we should use our brain. In this particular case the police may have both courteous and righteous. However, there is a long history of excessive US police violence going unpunished. Most often they kill black men, many who are innocent and unarmed, but they also kill women and children who are innocent and unarmed. The numbers are outrageously high. In the US in one year, police kill more people than Scotland Yard officers have killed in the history of Scotland Yard.

That history is a legacy that affects every interaction between police and civilians. I've not been arrested, but I fear being stopped and killed. I do not own a gun, and consider myself a pacifist. It is not right that innocent civilians should fear the police. Collectively they are not innocent.

@zesty i hate to be the one that has to be blunt but....... Just stop these idiotic remarks.... Please

@lookinhard I don't reply to her posts.I don't care for her fascist ramblings but it appears to be just attention seeking. Post something controvesial just to get a response

@Moravian I agree with you!

@Moravian thanx for the tip.It saddens me that some on here agreed with her.I am becoming more and more certain that I can't keep being part of agnostic.Not exactly the class of folks I would have expected.Thank you for being one of the good ones

@lookinhard That would be a shame. There are only a few like her and she is the most extreme.
I have been a little disappointed of late.Some posts which I consider to be trivia get a lot of attention as do some which appear to be supporting religion while some really interesting topics get little attention, but hey that's life.
Don't give up it;s still a great site.

@Moravian thanx.......Ill hang out a while more but stupidity screams for me to get in its face.And in my eyes,and others,there is some serious non intelligence running rampant.It actually it might be the lack of common sense.Nice talkin witcha

@EdEarl SERIOUSLY?...you fear being stopped and getting killed?What exactly do you envision happening if you are stopped for a traffic infraction? Yikes....Im sorry for you.And Im am not being sarcastic in any way

@lookinhard Yes seriously, because it has already happened. I don't change my behavior significantly, but I am aware that cops are rarely reprimanded for murder, without provocation. A local news video showed a cop shooting and killing a man who was standing with his hands in the air. All the cops were at least twenty feet from him. He was unarmed. The killer got off Scott free.

@EdEarl as I said....I am sorry for you

@lookinhard Thsnks, but your sympathy should be directed at the thousands of families of police shootings, over a thousand each year. I am nominally happy and content. It's very rare that I interact with police.

@edearl thousands of families of police shooting victims annually? Take care ed.

@lookinhard 1164 in 2018. Google it. More than a thousand each year makes multiple thousands. My statement was unclear.

@EdEarl HMMM interesting....just googled it and saw 990.........so who is right?

@lookinhard No federal agency keeps those figures. Individuals search news stories to collect them. They're both probably wrong. They are both close to a thousand. I won't quibble. I accept 990.

@EdEarl alrighty then.I am going to say goodbye now.goodbye