I don't like what the Israeli govt is doing. They are wrong to create a racist apartheid society with Palestineans. You are wrong.

@sassygirl3869 do you remember history? Palistian's high jacked airlines, bombed commute busses, childrens parties, nightclubs!

Talk about topic creep, and creep is the correct word. What does your comment have to do with the original topic? Somebody on this site brings up a question about their own life, and you change it to Middle Eastern politics.

Your comment says, "... they suspect ..." and, "...they very often ...." Talk about creating an us versus them, or in your case, us versus they. You can't even bring yourself to use the word.

I think your true self is showing.

@sassygirl3869 I know your views and that several other Jewish people here hold the same view. But I'm not wrong about many holding that contradictory stance.

@Kenn Topic creep is what keeps discussion going and people only complain when they don't like where it's going. My point is that they can still connect at the cultural level (unless, of course, they happen to think what's going on over there is lousy, as sassygirl pointed out). As for 'us and them' that's priceless in the context of Palestine.
And I am always myself!

@brentan No, somebody asked a question, and you bring up something completely off topic. I was just being nice calling it topic creep.

And once again, "My point is that they ...." Who is they? Is there a reason you won't use the word?

And yes, unfortunately, people like you will continue to always be yourself. Yes, butting in and putting your opinions in a completely off topic way. Butting in with your political beliefs where they haven't been asked for. (Since being nice didn't work, I'll try the direct method.)

@Kenn I agree with you. Some people get a mindset of Jews. Same with African-Americans.

@Kenn, @brentan it's got nothing to do with religion. You'd be surprised how many in Israel are more like me! I had Palestinean friends over there.

@benhmiller Yes I do -I had Canadian friends on the first highjacked plane I served with in the Israeli army. We changed our flight and left earlier. The next flight out was hijacked. Bibi is STEALING LAND and INSTITUTING APARTHEID and morally and historically THAT IS WRONG!!!!!!!

@sassygirl3869 you know the only real difference between them is religion get rid of religion they have nothing to fight over!

@benhmiller I agree with you on that front.

@Kenn I'll say again, because you're desperate to deny my point, that I said what a Jewish person might do to communicate with fellow Jews if he or she was not quite a believer. I'm not sure what word you're talking about unless you're unhappy with the use of a pronoun.

@sassygirl3869 Have a good evening.

Time of mourning Yom Kippur comes first.. New Years is Rosh Hashonah which follows.

@sassygirl3869 Yes, a few times I was invited. It is interesting, people read the old texts, eat, drink. Nice.
However, I think, earlier group sex was also part of the religious ritual. What an important part to miss!

She can be a Cultural Jew. Not believe in God but enjoy traditions that are non-religious.

@sassygirl3869 I was raised a Methodist, but I have completely disassociated myself from it, so I have no issues around religious holidays. I was suggesting she do the same with her Jewish upbringing.

I’m just by tradition and heritage, it’s the god thing I’m not about.

Similarly to being a gypsy, cultural Jews are people who've travelled for centuries and have no Homeland to identify with. Therefore their heritage is Jewish, not by religion, but by culture. It's like telling a gypsy to stop being a gypsy. They're not Romanian, contrary to fiction. We're not Israelis. So what would be our heritage? Egyptian/Mediterranean/Middle Eastern/European/Asian? Is there a name for that?

maybe it is because you know nothing about judaism. you think the "old testament" tells you everything you need to know about it. otherwise you would not say such a thing. and yes, i am an atheist. i am not defending a belief in a god or gods. i am defending getting facts straight.

g

@genessa Perhaps so, It is like no other identity I have ever heard of. One never comes across Christian Atheists or Muslim Agnostics. It seems more a racial identity than a religious one. One is simply born to it. I am sure this must be all wrong, if you might be so good to explain.

@genessa Also what facts are we referring to here? I have made no factual claims other than I do not understand an identity of a Jewish Atheist and that it appears singular to me.

@CapriKious well, there is a lot of controversy about it -- some are offended by the thought of a racial element, and others find it comforting. scientifically there is no such thing as race (there are families and communities). ethnicity is different, though. there is definitely a jewish ethnicity, or rather a few jewish ethnicities: ashkenazim have a different culture (religion aside) from sephardim, and there is a third group, often lumped in with the sephardim, and i can never remember the name of that group, begins with an m i think, not that that's helpful, right? but there IS a culture and whether you consider it a racial culture or not, there is an explanation for it, and that is the diaspora. until the mid 20th century, jews had no homeland except whatever country they settled in. german jews assimilated quickly and did well... until you know what. oops. some of them protested, but i am not religious, i am a good german, and they got gassed anyway. (the nazis believed in race and to them it was a racial issue, but my point is that the assimilated jews valued their german identity to the extent of repressing their jewish identity and the result was a bit of an object lesson to the survivors.) most jews of the diaspora found that the only way to have a cultural and origin-based identity at all was to hold onto their jewish identity, since in most cases they were NOT permitted to assimilate, regardless of whether or not they wanted to. a catholic in america might be an irish american or an italian american or a mexican american and being a catholic-american as primary identity was unnecessary; one's ancerstors were irish or italian or mexican. a jewish american can claim a nation of origin but that nation probably never acknowledged him or her; the jewish identity is the only origin the jew could safely claim. whether or not that is still true is irrelevant; it became its own thing and it persists. i am part of it myself.

there is also the interesting phenomenon within judaism itself that, unlike in other religions, one is expected to ask questions. one is expected, even, to doubt. in catholicism (to continue using it as an example) that gets you excommunicated, right? or at least spanked! but a jew is born to ask questions. it's not a faith-based faith, the way various kinds of christianity are. there is no such thing as excommunication per se in judaism but there is apostasy and there is only one thing that can render a jew no longer a jew. it's not being an atheist; that won't do it. it's not eating pork. it's taking on another god. well, an atheist jew isn't likely to be doing that! so i'm still a jew )

that's not the whole story and i don't know how well i explained it, but it's at least part of it.

g

@CapriKious making a comparison of judaism to slavery implies, at least to me, facts not in evidence. maybe that is not a comparison you meant to make; it is one you made nonetheless.

g

@CapriKious If you are REALLY INTERESTED IN LEARNING you can check out Jewish by Culture. Judaism is culture to us NOT RELIGION.

@genessa It had not been my intention to compare Judaism to slavery, It was only the analogy that popped into mind to explain how odd it seemed to me.

@sassygirl3869 I would assume that there are practicing Jewish persons that would disagree that Judaism is not a religion as i am forced to myself. That a culture is aside from Judaism itself I may readily accept. That those that embrace this nuance prefer to call themselves Jewish, I find personally irritating, but is of no particular moment.

@genessa I appreciate your effort to help me understand. Not being immersed I should never have a full appreciation as you would. But your explanation made me look at it differently and for that I am grateful.

@sassygirl3869 sassy, let me respectfully disagree but i think you will be happy with my disagreement. judaism is a religion. jewishness, yiddishkeit, is a culture.

g

@CapriKious i appreciate your willingness to listen! not everyone has that, alas. now, as for immersion, i was raised secularly, with a strong sense of jewishness but not so much of judaism. i don't remember EVER going to shul on the high holy days. i know i experienced seders but i only remember one. (i don't remember a single thanksgiving, either, for that matter, and i know we celebrated it, so who knows?) we went to shul if someone got married or had a bar/bat mitzvah. that was it. i started holding seders myself, on and off, when i grew up, and then i met my guy in 2000 and he goes to shul on his parents' yahrzheits (death anniversaries) to hear their names read aloud, and he goes on the high holidays, so i started going with him on some years. before i met him, when i was new in minnesota, i found out that some individuals make a habit of inviting strangers to a seder if they have nobody or nowhere to go, so i signed up and went to the home of some lovely people, and they told me that even though i was an atheist i had more yiddishkeit (jewishness) and neshuma (soul) than some of their relatives (they named them, haha!) so my life has not been immersed in judaism, but it has, rather, in jewishness.

g

@CapriKious

Indeed, one doesn't often (or ever? run into Christian or Muslim Overt Atheists (as far as I know) but Jewish atheists such as myself are sort of common, and have been for more than a century (if not millenia for all I know). eg:

[en.wikipedia.org]
[en.wikipedia.org]
[en.wikipedia.org]

[I'm going to edit this because it may be offensive in some way, I had compared to Native American tribes.]

The word that I like to use sometimes is that I'm a member of the "Tribe" of Israel - there is some commonality with other tribal members of of creator mythology, moral teachings, language, customs, ceremonies, music, dance, food, etc., yes along with commonality of DNA and ancestry. As well, there may be commonality of geography and some of politics.

Going to a theistic ceremony with friends or family every once in awhile,can be problematic, and some (or many) Jewish atheists won't do this, but some will... they may say that it does not mean that one necessarily personally believes in the creation mythology or the moral teachings. It may be that one simply enjoys the fellowship and sense of community. Yes, it's a problem that some both inside the tribe and outside of it will insist otherwise (i.e.: they will take your presence at a ceremony as meaning, ipso facto, that one is in some way a believer) , but there's not much one can do about that.

There is also a modern branch of Judaism which is welcoming to atheist Jews, though I don't know that it requires atheism:
[shj.org]

fwiw, I went to a high holy days observance once at that place and it didn't seem that good to me, but I'm not that into Judaism in general.

More broadly, a couple of times I have gone to regular Sunday services at a Unitarian Church nearby. There are some atheists who will (out of ignorance) assume that no true atheist could go to a Unitarian Church service, but (in my limited experience) that is the other place I have found which is better about affirming that atheists are welcome, though not everyone who goes there is atheist, and they will not obnoxiously assume the presence of an atheist means the atheist is in some way affirming a belief in God.

Cultural Jews do not believe in a Higher Power-at least I don't and never have.

All Jews are different. In my Jewish by Culture Group we have x-tians who are vs anti-Semitism and racism.

@sassygirl3869 Many Jews I know on the Upper West Side of Manhattan are cultural Jews who may visit the synagogue for family reasons on the High Holy Days, but actually they are agnostics & atheists. They question whether there is a higher power as agnostics, not as Jews.

@Remiforce ok makes sense-personally I do not believe in such.