This is about history. Real history. Many millions suffered. For horrible reasons. Most had no idea why. Many still do not. But the wounds are obviously so deep they still are felt.
Continuing to blame the 99% for something they did not understand is pretty lame. Don't ya think?

@Jacar What I think is "lame" is making excuses for people who knew that they were definitely fighting a war against the United States government, thus making them traitors no matter what facile excuse given for them fighting. And this idea that "the 99%" did not know that fighting that war would mean that a white man could own a black man is just a blatant lie.

@Jacar i don't know anyone who is blaming angone, personally, so i won't comment on that. Im also fairly sure youre right that 99% of the people who actually fought in the war werent able to have anywhere near the insight into the dynamics at hand (or the official version (TM) thereof), than we do, decades later. (Even though, like redbai said, they werent all that stupid either). I guess i don't quite understand what you think youre defending against, but like i said, it seems to be some kind of legacy of hurt, and who deserves more victim cards. Imho that sucks. Are you trying to justify the feelings of the people who fly confederate flags because their ancestors were clueless, so its ok for them to be clueless? Why are you playing identity politics?

@redbai Most did not know. No internet, no phones, limited literacy and general education.

Just like now.

@Jacar I believe that's a lie. But hey, maybe you have something like EVIDENCE to demonstrate that 99% of southerners fighting in the Civil War were to ignorant to know that it would mean leaving the USA (making them traitors) and allow them the right to hold people a slaves (making them people of low moral character).

@Jacar That is just so much bullshit.

@redbai And 99% of the northerners also did not know why they were dying.

NO internet. NO phones. Most everyone was illiterate and lied to.

Obviously you would have been more informed. Time to buy a vowel.

@Jacar We aren't talking about the people from the north, we're talking about those in the south, and they knew exactly what they were fighting for. You are simply lying.

You are absolutely correct.

Yes the 1 percent took them to war. The majority were just ordinary people with no idea what was happening. Just like now. Don't ya think?

@Jacar No I do not. The people of the south knew exactly what they were fighting for, the right to own slaves. It's on every document and a major point in the confederate constitution. There was no ambiguity at all and to pretend that people who were facilitating the practice of slavery based on race were somehow not aware that it would have kept black people as slaves is ridiculous on it's face.

You're perpetuating a lie in order to make incredibly disgusting actions by people well aware of what they were doing and the repercussions of their actions seem benign. I have no interest in trying to pretend racism is some kind of normal character trait that should simply be dismissed as something as benign as scratching in public. The traitorous acts of the people of the south still facilitates racism and the perpetuation of white supremacy to this day.

@redbai The 1% knew what they were doing. Along with the foreigners aiding the south. The majority did not know any more than they had been told. Just like now.

@Jacar Yeah, they were told that they wouldn't be able to buy and sell black people anymore. That if they wanted to make "an honest day living" catching the slaves who were trying to run away from their "legal masters" they wouldn't be able to do it anymore. The entire slave industry, of which many of them belonged would no longer be a viable way of making money. So they went and killed people to have that right.

They knew that if black people would no longer be slaves, one day the only difference between them and a black person would be money. They would no longer be superior and maybe one day have the right to own someone.

What you haven't done in these pathetic attempts to sympathize with people of incredibly low moral character, is give a single argument that the "1%" used that was so convincing that it rallied people all over the south to fight and try to destroy a nation. What argument, that wasn't slavery, did the 1% use that was able to fool all these people into fighting a war? The obvious reason for that is that there is so much evidence to the contrary that any attempt would seem silly.

Not an apology in the sense that the north did something wrong. Just a reasoned understanding that current behavior is born of extremely deep wounds.

Other atrocities do not excuse any others.

@Jacar Bullshit. It's just YET another excuse to continue feeling victimized by those mean ol' Yankees.
Their "deep wounds" are of their own creation, because they WILL NOT LET IT GO.
Their current behavior is contrived and undeserved.
Your "reasoned understanding" is just another attempt at normalizing racism.
It was a war. Atrocities were committed by both sides.
The South is still mad because they fucking LOST.
Too damned bad.
No sympathy, no excuses, no more whining.
Which is ALL it is.

@KKGator You are obviously a truly wonderful human being. I am so very sad you are not my friend.

@Jacar I AM a truly wonderful human being. I'm fucking delightful.
You should be sad we aren't friends.
I'm a damned good friend to have.

Most people alive today in the US have not lived with the remnants of war in their own community,.

@Jacar Oh really whining pathetic thing for the lost cause.

Try living in Flint where the water is poison.

Try living on a reservation.

White southerners were NOT oppressed.

You are Trolling!

@Jacar Also, I read an article....just today...Today!

Tulsa is trying to locate the bodies of hundreds of African American Men women and CHILDREN who were brutally slaughtered in 1921. Most of them were burned alive.

Babies and toddlers Burned Alive while the white mob whooped and hollered.

But No. You see the descendants of that white mob as the biggest victims in the history of the US.

Give this nonsense up man or sell it on some right wing site.

We aren't going to buy it here.

[cnn.com]

Get over hundreds of thousands of relatives and neighbors and citizens being killed in a conflict that few understood. And obviously still do not today.

@Jacar no get over the fact that the south lost, only southeners that are in denial can't understand this fact, because it is a fact. Loss of life happened in both sides, and it is not true that "only few understood" unless you are talking about a few southeners. If they can't understand even today is denial, either go to see a shrink otherwise BOO HOO!

@Mofo1953 Your depth of empathy, and therefore ability to help any change, is striking.

@Jacar i have no empathy for stupidity.

Quite a leap. I'm not defending behavior. I am exploring the reasons for it.

@Jacar . The southern states had the same rights as the northern states. Anyone of them that claimed that they were fighting to preserve their way of life, and that they did not know what they were fighting for, were lying. The only difference at the time were the strong abolition movement in the north and in the federal government. There was a strong possibility that new laws would be passed to abolish slavery. The only difference between northern states and southern states were that the southern states did not want to give up the ownership of slaves. That is the only way of life that they wanted to preserve that was different than in the northern states. The union was against slavery and the confederacy wanted to keep them.

@noworry28 The constitution has three places wherein slavery was addressed. All were with the intent that slavery would be abolished within 20 years.
The war was about how the 1% in the south had not abided by the law.
Most people living in all the states had no real understanding of what was happening outside their neighborhood. The rich and powerful went to war. They south should have lost.
This does not negate the horrors that the masses experienced.

@Jacar. You can try all you want to justify or try to apply some patriotic duty to the confederacy. IT WAS ABOUT SLAVERY PERIOD. The poor who volunteered were afraid that if the slaves were freed they would be treated like equals and on the same level as them. They did not want blacks to be on the same level as them. IT WAS ABOUT SLAVERY PERIOD. The rich wanted a free labor force. IT WAS ABOUT SLAVERY PERIOD.

@noworry28 It was about economics. Slavery was a means to an income. Otherwise it would not exist.

\ Today more people, primarily women, are enslaved than ever before.

@Jacar . Still trying to justify it. Trying to rewrite history and romanticize the confederacy. You live in a state of denial. Good luck with that.

False equivalencies. And:::: I DID NOT call for an apology. Read again.

@Jacar "We do poorly to discount their need for apology. We reveal our lack of previous reflection in our exclamations of their lessness."

@273kelvin Really from you? Read the sentence THEIR need. Not MY endorsement. I am disappointed YOU reacted without thinking.

@Jacar My criticism was directed at "their" need. If you take that as directed at you well... but then again you posted it.

@273kelvin The way you quoted was as i interpreted.

These people are generations away from the experience. what we think is reasonable is seen by them as ignorance. And they are correct.

That is not so. It was a war of economics and clashing cultures. And most, 99 %, had no idea what they were fighting for.

@Jacar It looks to me like you are a victim of fake news. Here is an article you may want to read. It lists 5 reasons for the U.S. Civil War. Most have to do with slavery. [thefinertimes.com]

@BestWithoutGods Slavery was and is an economic issue. The underlying supports do not negate that. That those people believed bullshit does not alter the fact that they did not want to lose their income, and their way of life. Slavery was and is evil. (FYI: there are more actual slaves now than any time before.
And just as now there are many bedfellows that work for a mutual cause without endorsing all those who are involved. That is realty.
1% owned other humans. Just like now. Just like now. Tell me how all conservatives are evil? All lefties are stupid? There were many reasons for that war. Including participation of foreign powers. It was not simple.

@Jacar So we agree that the economic issue was tied to slavery. We agree that slavery is evil. On what continent is there still slavery? I do not claim that all conservatives are evil; some are merely deceived. There may be some stupid progressives, but most are smarter than conservatives. I agree that the Civil War was not simple, and that there were several causes. But slavery was one of the major causes, and I find it hard to believe that people in the 1860's were ignorant of that fact.

@Jacar Economics and clashing cultures? So THAT'S what it was about? Oh, and "state's rights," don't forget that one!
It was about S-L-A-V-E-R-Y, fool!

@Storm1752 Slavery was a element. NOT the primary issue.

@Jacar That is a lie.

The majority were basic people. The 1 percent were the evil ones. I am not defending behavior. I am attempting to understand it. No understanding. No solutions.

Please, learn nothing. Just gurgitate as you subconsciously respond before your brain has time to consider any actual thoughts.

Block me now. PLEASE!

@Jacar There was a solution. The south got their asses handed to them in an unjust war that destroyed their disgusting institution of slavery. It worked out just fine. If white bigots hadn't attempted to destroy things they didn't want to share equally with black people, all the "devastation" you claim wouldn't have occurred. If they had spent money on improving the environment and infrastructure instead of building obscene statues to traitors the situation would be drastically different.

But they didn't. They wallowed for generations in the disgusting racism of the ancestors doing everything they could to keep non-whites at a lower economic status than whites and have no one but themselves to blame for the condition of their lands.

They did not ALL embrace it. The 1 percent owned slaves. The rest were just like us.

@Jacar That is not true. As a native southerner who understands southern culture and history, I can say with certainty that most poor southerners who did not own slaves actually aspired to do so. One of my ancestors who actually did oppose slavery in St. Augustine was forced to flee to the North for his own safety.

@Jacar Please stop spewing your incessant bullshit.
None of what you are attempting to justify is remotely true.
Your "research" is faulty, at best, and downright LIES, in fact.
They ALL knew exactly what they were doing.
If they didn't, their ignorance does not earn them a pass.
Just stop now.
You've already exposed your agenda.

@KKGator . . Block me. . . I am equally tired of things that refuse to learn, but are motivated by their righteous ignorance to spew crap before their brains actually have time to engage their frontal lobes..

@Jacar You are spewing venom. Unacceptable!

@Jacar You don't bother me enough for me to block you. Your insults are pathetic, as are your positions on the subject.
Bye now!

Thank you, from another who attempts to understand real history.

That totally ignores that for generations after the war the south perpetuated lies and misinformation about non-white people, created monuments to traitors and lynched black people in the thousands, terrorizing generations of black people. It wasn't the one percent voting in juries to let KKK walk for terrorizing black people. It wasn't the one percent bombing churches. It wasn't the one percent segregating schools and red lining neighborhoods.

Spare me the pity for traitors.

@redbai Is it any different now? How is understanding another's pain an endorsement of their subsequent behavior?

@Jacar You haven't defined any "pain" except that white racists don't get to see the fruits of owning people spread out across the land allowing them to wallow in the greatness of slavery. Most descent people don't consider that pain.

The poor who fought for the Confederacy were often pressured into doing so, however, they also believed in the cause for which they were fighting, which was the enslavement of other human beings. Much like the uneducated poor Trump supporters of today, they fancied themselves "embarrassed millionaires" and had to convince themselves they were "better" than somebody. The only somebodies they could point to as more marginalized than themselves were slaves, and they definitely didn't want the enslaved to become the freed.

@Deb57 You started with a good sentence and then drowned in caveats.

The majority were basic people. The 1 percent were the evil ones.

@Jacar The other 99% went to slaughter people to support it.

And remember your beloved slave holder protectors drew first blood at Fort Sumter and earned every bit of wrath and pain that any traitors deserve.

@BufftonBeotch They were lied to. Just like now. And back then being killed for not marching was immediate.

@Jacar Oh please.....

@patchoullijulie No internet. No twiittee. Most were illiterate. Fake news everywhere. That was there reality.

I didn't write 'most.' Some do think their family suffered unjustly. Some did. How is attempting to understand their ideas endorsing stupidity?

Read again.

@Jacar I agree you didn't speak to the size of your faux victim group. However, your diatribe only spoke to one part of southern society. The omission of the graceful majority left your readers with a myopic and distorted perception of the region. One could likely suspect your motive here is just a hate bait post. Lastly, your arrogant suggestion for me to read this again is laughable. Based on our brief Interaction I highly doubt there is anything you can teach me. I will read any of your future posts that appeal to positivity. Otherwise we're done here....

Not understanding history is why the shit is repeated.

The CSA BREXITED from the USA. The USA then INVADED the CSA. (Just to be accurate).

After they declared war.

@Deb57The CSA agrarian bourgeoisie never declared war on the USA industrial/financial bourgeoisie. Neither did the Northern bourgeoisie officially declare war on them ( although, one could look at Lincoln's call for 75,000 volunteers to invade the South with, could be viewed as such). Rather, it can be looked upon as the final unraveling of the 'marriage of convenience' that had held the two nations together, since before the Revolution of 1775-1783. (One nation had been founded at Plymouth Plantation, in 1620. The other had been founded at Jamestown, in 1607).The 'errant bride' was brought back kicking and screaming, after a long, and bloody Un-Civil War.And the wage-slave masters of the North prevailed over the chattel-slave masters of the South, which has been an occupied country ever since (considering no majority of Southrons ever voted to 're-join' the 'Union'. So, your Wage-Slave
masters won! You can relax!

@davknight The Confederacy disregarded the outcome of an election they participated in, declared their intent to leave the union in order to protect slavery, seized US property, and opened fire on American troops in an act of aggression not defense.

No nation was formed at Plymouth or Jamestown. They were both established as English colonies. A nation was formed in Philadelphia in 1789 when the constitution was ratified by the thirteen states that would form the United States.

@JimGWhen you order trespassers off your land, and they don't leave, you have every right to open fire on them And the ultimate winner of the 1860 election wasn't even on the ballot in most Southern states. So, Southerners can hardly have been said to have had full "participation". And yes, not one, but TWO distinctly different NATIONALITIES of people emerged from the Colonial experience--the seed for the Southern Nation was planted at Jamestown. The seed for the rest of you was planted at Plymouth Rock. And your wage-slaveocrats won over the chattel slaveocrats in 1865. So why complain? Be happy!

The CSA government was just trash overall.

It's called migration.

@Jacar even the families who have only been in America for a few generations, none of which have ever so much as visited the South, let alone experienced generational repression of poverty.

@redthefiste People move, hence the spread of ideas/stories.

Yes. It was and is horrible.

Reads like an attempt to normalize racism to me.

@redbai Normalise.and justify!

@redbai That is a sad response. Should we all minimize everyone's pain thus? Hundreds of non-whites suffered. Their families still recount the loss. I will not discount ANYONE'S pain by referring to their differences.

The Earth is flat

@DZhukovin some if it is...

Most of them did not know anything about the war. The 1 percent owned slaves. Just like now. Time to do some research.

What in the hell does not believing in the supernatural have to do with attempting to understand human suffering?
Go to your safe space and wonder why you have not sense of empathy nor sympathy.

And then ban me so you don't have to be so morally challenged.

@Jacar They ALL knew enough of why the South was waging war. If any of them were ignorant of the why of it, that's on them, no one else.
Their suffering is irrelevant. It's also over.
Unless, of course, they are, like you, refusing to let it go.

@KKGator NO internet. NO phones. most completely illiterate. You need to learn more before you spew such shit.